To worry for millennials

[eedon]

As many things are going backward in terms of quality of living. Now even for jobs that used to be entry level employers are demanding a degree just because there is a surplus of degrees. To get a degree is what 40k plus, with interest compounding on this most people will never pay it off, and didn't they change the law that it wouldn't be written off in peoples lifetimes like it used to be. More graduates then ever unemployed. The average house price has been going up double digit percentages for the last decade, many in the south east have learnt more through their house than working. I just can't see where it will all end.

I'm not interested in your nationality, I have asked you politely and ignoring my request makes it look as if you're trying to goad me - your choice but it doesn't do you any favours.

I am not against the IER as such - at least they are open about who they are and what their aims are. They have a stated agenda which is to promote a free market econcomy; as for their figures, they will use whatever they can find to support their narrative - which is that the UK is cannot afford a welfare state. I think it was rather disenguenous to present their findings as if they are mainstream.

This has the potential to be quite an interesting thread but it seems it might go off track on an argument about the size of economies (which isn't really the point anyway) and the use of the word "hun".

I agree the state pension is vulnerable and looks unsustainable. I am another with a FIL who has been drawing a public sector and state pension for much longer than he'd even been working (36 years drawing a public sector final salary pension after a "career" of 28 years working and retirement at 50).

I worry for our DCs. The world is likely to be a very different place with resources running short and prices rocketing. We have assumed that at least one of ours will end up living with us for some time after graduating. Many of our friends are also considering this when purchasing their own homes and going for places which could accommodate two generations as a permanent/semi permanent arrangement. In many ways though it's just going back to our grandparents' time when it wouldn't have been unusual for extended families to live together.

Depends what you mean by a "degree", soft subjects are not worth the paper their written on. Subjects such as math, chemistry and engineering are very valid.

My DS is going to uni next year to study one of the above and having the debt after doing so isn't a big deal considering what his earning potential will be later.

I'd love to have a large family home and accommodate kids and their offspring. Unfortunately we have a tiny ex council place so that plan wont work for us.

We don't have a proper pension. We're both well educated but not been overly successful career wise. It's a bit grim :(

I think younger millennials are suffering from the fact that for people my age and a little older (early-mid 30s), there was a massive push to send people to university and the system was not geared up to cope. The increase in fees is a massive (and rather blunt) adjustment, but it will disproportionately affect those who - not unreasonably - expected to go to university and leave with a much more manageable debt.

Longer term, I think we as a society really need to look at whether university education is the norm for such a large percentage of the population. If it is, then are traditional courses teaching the right things? (BTW I am all for learning for its own sake and was what you would consider 'academic' at school / uni, but I equally saw many of my peers do a degree because that's what's expected and not out of any urge to learn).

I don't use my degree and you could do my job without it, but unless you're very talented and ready to hustle (or perversely, over 45 when you would've been able to climb the ladder without the degree), you probably wouldn't get anywhere near my job without it. That's a problem.

believe the UK is normally rated the 5th or 6th richest country in the world but thank you for illustrating my point so beautifully.

Its all relative though, isn't it? And I'm very left wing in my thoughs, I barely agree with anything this govournment has done but even I can see that a state pension for everyone, rich or poor, no matter how much anyone has paid in, with an ageing population is just completely unsustainable.

And I can guarantee it will no longer exsist by the time 20-somethings want to retire.

I don't think this is nescesarily a bad thing, given that workplace pensions are becoming mandatory. I guess if for some reason that falls through there will be a safety net.

Also RE apprenticeships. Yes they are definitely on the increase, I got one myself when I left school although I'm finding now (early- mid twenties) that I can't really go much further in my career without the "golden ticket" that is a degree. Apprentices are "hired to do a job". And the fast-tracked are always the graduates, no matter how hardworking or skilled an apprentice may be. Although I do work in a boys club so maybe this isn't the norm. So I'm back to where I started getting my degree with open uni. A major advantage though is by the time I finished, I'll also have 13 years industry experience which I'm hoping will give me a huge edge.

Research the apprenticeship and company carefully, as lots of them are just after an excuse to pay less than the bare minimum wage. I belive apprenticeships are for skilled jobs, yet McDonalds were trying to introduce them!! Take from that what you will.

But with a trade apprenticeship you have the option of having your own business, handing it down through the generations. My grandad inherited his father's business, passed it down to my uncles and all their son's served apprenticeship through it too. Nobody in my family or hubby's family went to uni, none of them have a degree and none of them are struggling to find work. How hard does everyone find it to get a good plumber, glazer, mechanic, joiner, plasterer etc? All good skilled trades but for many years sneered at by those who felt they weren't good career choices

What about the women in the family sproketmx? It's all men you mention!

I agree about the trades though - I was v. academic but actually it hasn't got me anywhere - the people in the nice houses around me are those with trades and if you're in a trade and have contacts you can get things done in your own house cheaper/more reliably etc. We have noone in trades in our family and it would be so useful!

The women in this family aren't much interested in getting covered in grease and oil, coming home reeking of two stroke (apart from me) or getting stuck into the contents of someone else's blocked loo. My auntie runs the hairdressers here tho and her daughters work for her on Saturdays and after school and will probably go into hairdressing when they're 16. People moan about all the poles etc coming across but a lot of them I've seen have skilled trades and I can't help wondering if maybe that's got something to do with everyone's obsession about sending their kids to uni.

I honestly think you have a point. I live in a more trade/working class area now and it seems that people have their families around them rather than off to uni and a different city to work in. People have childcare and family to celebrate with and see regularly. I feel such an outsider to that culture but I do like it. I'm well aware its not the "done" middle class thing but I do envy it in many ways - the community and family bonds etc.

That's what we have here. I live in a sinkhole council estate that if you Google it the top two articles would be arson and someone nicking the postbox. The choices here are crime, the dole or working and most families would rather their kids not go down the first two so train and employ them themselves or they speak to contacts within other trades to get them a job. That community spirit you have there is here too and if per say you were a plumber but you drink in the pub with a joiner, your kid would rather be a joiner so you speak to your mate about it etc. You and your families reputation and contacts gets you further than exams round here.

My husband is 33, left school at 15 with little on paper but straight into a job. Apprentice wages are crap because you have to learn the skill first and typically apprentices start at 16 but by 20 you are fully qualified, no debts hanging over you and 4 years time served experience in that field with a network of contacts to utilise.

This is exactly what some people would like us to believe. I believe the UK is normally rated the 5th or 6th richest country in the world but thank you for illustrating my point so beautifully.

the problem is demographics. When pensions were started most people didn't live to be pensionable age. Now many people live 20 years past pensionable age.

Also, a generation ago, there were far less pensioners per worker. The scales are massively tipping the other way.

But it's not only the pension system. The government happily gives goodies to pensioners because they vote. You could take both arms from every 20-30 year old and they still wouldn't vote.

So, OP, you're telling us that the UK is not a rich country and that you can't afford pensions for old people? What do you expect people to do when they are too old to work? How much will it cost you to re-open the workhouses to house them then?

I'd also like to know exactly when was this mythical golden age when everyone walked out of school into a job and then bought a house? "several decades ago" isn't very clear.....

So, OP, you're telling us that the UK is not a rich country and that you can't afford pensions for old people? What do you expect people to do when they are too old to work? How much will it cost you to re-open the workhouses to house them then?

unless demographics change dramatically (they might), you'll be saying the same to the young about their pensions.

I'd also like to know exactly when was this mythical golden age when everyone walked out of school into a job and then bought a house? "several decades ago" isn't very clear.....

I don't think it was that good. But the cost of housing has skyrocketed. London used to be 4:1 (price to wages) only a few years ago, and now much higher. I think several decades ago it was 3:1.