To think a goldfish does not need a filter?

[yankeecandle4]

DD's goldfish died last month. We had it approximately 5 years. She has been asking for another one and we went to a large, well known pet shop yesterday to buy one or two.

Asked for assistance, the sales assistant quizzed us as to what size tank, if we were experienced goldfish owners (?!) and if tank was ready. I answered, said that water had been in tank for 3 days as this was what they had previously advised. She then went on to ask if I had used a filter. I used one years ago but didn't feel it made much difference (they need changed every three weeks or so) so last fishy didn't have one.

She said that it is a requirement to buy one and have it working for 3 days before I can buy fish. The cheapest filter was £26. In my embarrassment I pretended to buy one and said I would return in three days for the fish.

AIBU in thinking that one/two goldfish in a 30 litre tank do not need a filter to survive? Is this just this shops way of generating more cash?

Btw, avoid zebra danios. They are too active and athletic for such a small tank. If you get a heater you could keep red cherry shrimp. They're fascinating.

Rssboras are too big for a 30 litre too btw.

You could keep a single Siamese fighting fish (heater required). They have wonderful personalities and are beautiful.

We have 9 white cloud mountain minnows in a 60ltr tank. These are our first fish. They have no heater but do have a filter. They are hardy little buggers and are now all 4 years old. I thought they'd last about 18 months as they are so small but I am beginning to fear they are immortal. The novelty has worn off and I am just pleased that they do not require affection, or I would feel that I am neglecting them. They are relatively easy to keep - but fish last AGES so you might be better off with a gerbil.

Oh and I've had this tank 2 years and I've never changed the filter inserts. I give them a quick swish in tank water every few months and back in they go. Thats where all the good bacteria live.

Put bluntly, goldfish are dirty, dirty fish. A single goldfish needs at least 30l of water, which is a large tank- those little "kiddie" tanks rarely hold more than 10l, so without a filter the poor fish is basically swimming in sewage.

If you don't want to invest in a massive tank you could try Mollies. They come in orange as well as other colours and only need 1l/cm of fish, so about 4l per fish
They don't produce nearly as much waste and are pretty hardy. You will still need a filter (imagine the filter as the equivalent of a flushing toilet for a fish) but only a little one.

Thanks for the suggestions of alternatives.
The shop only sold goldfish, orandas and a very small silver/multi coloured fish. The rest were all tropical.

I will definitely look into something different. I feel really bad about the 100's many goldfish I had over the years as a child. I assumed they would have been happy in their novelty tanks

Yes you need a filter. You should absolutely not throw the filter sponge away every three weeks (that's just to get you to buy more filter sponge) and you need to cycle the tank so that the bacteria in there filter are able to handle the large volume of waste that goldfish produce. And you need a bigger tank. Goldfish can and do live in a variety of suboptimal conditions but that doesn't mean it's right to keep them like that. Anyhoo, the link before is really useful. Take a look.

injaf.org/care-and-information/the-goldfish-section/what-size-tank-for-goldfish/

Oh and that pet superstore chain is very well known for giving out crap advice. The three day thing means absolutely nothing and the problem is that most people can see through it but jumps to the wrong conclusion that there is no reason to wait any time before setting up a tank and putting in the fish.

Don't give yourself a hard time - it's only really in the last few years that the aquatics shops have started being more careful about the way they sell freshwater fish. All the advice you've had has been pretty friendly By MN standards!

Yes they do need a filter and plenty of room.

DB won a goldfish which survived in untreated tap water with no filter for five years but this was probably due to luck.

Just for the record, goldfish have a lifespan of 20-30 years and the oldest recorded one died at 43 so when people say that theirs died at 5, well, it's not as good as it first seems.

Here is another good article about choosing fish for children and I think that tank size is about the same as yours, OP? Its also good to remember that tropical fish are no harder to keep than temperate fish. You literally just add in a heater.

injaf.org/articles-guides/young-fishkeepers/child-friendly-fish-tanks/

5yrs is a very short life for a goldfish op so I'd say yes it obviously did need a filter.

A nice siamese fighter fish would love a 30ltr tank all to itself. They're only about a 5er and come in different colours and tails. Don't lose heart, fishkeeping is a wonderful past time if you do your research. You could get your dc to help test the water, design the tank, choose plants etc.

Ive learned loads by opening this thread and now feel bad about the goldfish i had as a child :(

I feel bad about how I kept a goldfish as a child too. It must have had a very stressful existance.

I now keep 3 of them, plus a few minnows and black widows in a 240L aquarium with a HUGE filter that is designed for a bigger tank than I have. They seem happy so far, even the Black Moor which I have found not to be a hardy breed in my experience.

To keep fish (any) well, you need as big a tank as you can afford and fit in, to find out how many fish you can stock it with and then cycle it well. A chemical testing kit is important to keep an eye on what is going on in your tank, as well as the time available to do proper water changes with treated water.

YABU, if you want to do it right that is.

I have 4 goldies in a (56G) 211 litre tank, which is unfortunately overstocked. The rule of thumb for a healthy goldfish is 20 gallons (75 litres) per fish but you can get away with 10/15 gallons. The way to combat the overstocking is more filters. The more filters you have the less waste your fish are sitting in but you will need to clean your filters often.

In that same vein though, a tank should never be "cleaned out" every week. You're destroying beneficial bacteria. A partial water change of 25% is enough every week (provided you have a good filter) and of course you should clean the sides etc if you have algae growing.

You should also not throw out your filter media because your cycle (nitrogen cycle) will crash and can result in death. You should test the water to ensure it stays in healthy parameters (0 ammonia, 0 nitrate and

Definitely agree with the fighting fish/betta idea. We've got a male in my daughters 40l tank with a small group of ember tetras. They all get along really well and the fighting fish is beautiful, so full of curiosity and character. They do need a heater, but these are relatively inexpensive and they have different foods too, but this lasts for ages. I used aqadviser.com, which gives you an idea on which fish can live together and how many in a particular size tank. And I also looked up the fishless cycle on myaquariumclub.com. I took the tank water to my local fish shop and they tested it for free, pets at home will do this too.

Treesparrow and sykadelic wrote everything I wanted to (thanks, LOL!) Not dissing any of the other replies that I skimmed, but if you read those two posters' replies, you'll have it all covered.

The "approximately 5 years" part of your OP is totally understandable. It sounds like a decent lifespan...until you know their genuine potential. I keep and breed tortoises and have lost count of the number of people who've proudly told me that they fed them and their tortoise lived for 40 or 50 years... So less than half their potential lifespan then...??