To ask help wording a dress code policy for our office?

[OvertiredandConfused]

I am in despair of the dress code at work and want to change it so that it gives a reasonable idea of expectations but isn't a ridiculous list of dos and don'ts! We're all intelligent adults for goodness sake!

The aim is to have what I would call a smart casual / business casual environment. So that would allow for tailored jeans with a shirt or jacket and smart shoes, for example. Your favourite tour t-shirt, ripped jeans and trainers is not ok.

We currently have what reads like a very prescriptive dress code and yet half the staff still look scruffy even thought they technically follow the guidelines whilst the other half are irritated that the jeans example above is not allowed.

I was thinking of a statement along the lines of "we expect employees to present themselves in clean and smart attire that is appropriate for their role and an office environment." However, I think that is a little too open to personal interpretation.

Has anyone got any useful suggestions, or great policies that they're willing to share?

Agree with those saying a uniform would be completely inappropriate for most non-public office-based roles. It would actually be a deal-breaker for me. That might seem like an over-reaction, but what I am wearing has a big effect on my happiness, comfort and self esteem. Having to spend forty plus hours a week in a (probably) cheap, nasty, unflattering uniform that completely removed my individuality would make me feel crap, so I wouldn't do a job that required it.

I used to work in an office where the dress code was smart casual. A memo went round explaining the management's interpretation of this which was:

"What do we mean by smart casual? Well, we mean smart jeans and smart casual clothes. We do not mean dressing like you are off to Chinawhite to pick up a lower league footballer, we do not mean dressing as if you are a lower league footballer or actually even premier league. We do not mean dressing as if you are off to B&Q or the football.

Think Gastropub! Ask yourself "would I wear this to the Slug and Lettuce, if I wasn't on a date". If the answer is yes, then we will probably like it too!"

Tossers wouldn't let me wear combats though.

Behold That company sounds ghastly. Their memo would be off no help to as I'm afraid I don't get any of the references.

Did they go on for team building away days too

Behold that sounds interesting yet unhelpful.

Could you not pick up the dress code from the look of the other people in the office though?

I work in HE (not an academic but like Boffinmum I too get to dress up sometimes!). Generally I wear dresses and cardigans. I wore trousers once and a colleague asked me if I was about to burst into song (see my username and yes they were my 'concert trousers').

On my first day my line manager looked me up and down and said I could be "casual" and that really "looking too smart wasn't good when working with students". I was completely . By this point I'd been working with students for 8 years and noone had ever, ever commented that I was "too smart". Besides which, I look a lot younger than I am and particularly when I was in my 20s, if I wasn't wearing something smart, I would be mistaken for a student.

These days I meet with external people frequently, meet with very senior people from other departments, present to committees and activities where I need to look like I can be taken seriously. My line manager, imvho, looks far too casual and I take my lead from our HoD who dresses smartly at all times.

I've never found I can't relate to students dressed smartly either.

Wear whatever you are comfortable in, as long as its decent.

Id never work for or get services from a workplace with an UNESCO uniform.

i think you need to go

Dress Code: Smart Casual.

and then define what you mean by that.

Trousers and skirts must be smart, well fitting and presentable with no logo, embellishment or visible rips/tears. No shorts.

Shirts. Men - Shirts, polo shirt and plain t-shirts. A small logo is permissible but no slogans.
Ladies - blouses, tunics, plain t-shirts. Some tasteful embellishment and/or a logo is permissible. No spaghetti straps or low cut necklines.

Shoes - no trainers or flip flops.

The management reserve the right to request an item of clothing not be worn again if we deem it unacceptable.

or so on :)

I think often smartness depends on age of clothes - new jeans look smarter than an old, out of shape, faded suit. However not sure how you would put that in a dress code.

Forcing people to spend more money on clothes for work might really rub people up the wrong way.

It also depends how much you are paying your staff. If it's some shitty call centre where the pay's commission only and the place is grimy and overheated, laying down the law about what they look like is going to mean you have an even faster turnover. If you are a fancy, expensive bunch of executives then you probably have enough money for extra work clothes (and in some cases they are tax deductible) but you need to be careful of insisting that your lowest-paid staff members spend lots of money on their workwear...

Thinking about it again Behold I find that dress code reasonably easy to interpret.

Dark to medium blue jeans. No rips. Close fitting but no camel toe. Straight cut - possibly skinny if you were skinny too. Heels but not outrageously high.

Loose-ish T-shirt with an inoffensive design or some glitter.

Jacket in denim or cotton drill or maybe a mac.

It's not very exciting but it wouldn't kill me to wear that. Basically, you can pick it all up in Zara cheaply.

I'd find the memo stupidly offensive but I've worked for far more stupid and offensive people than that to let that bother me.

I'd have your general dress code and then a list of items you wish to specifically exclude. Such as trainers, and I would include jeans as being excluded if its an office environment. I would include going over the dress code in your induction policy for new employees and do a short training session on it for all employees (perhaps hidden in some other kind of training). If its really a problem at your workplace, I'd start stressing it in interviews and being more careful you employ people who have made an effort to look smart.

Also be aware how much you are paying people. I've never heard of well paid professionals being scruffy, no matter how casual they are. But shelling out for 5 different complete sets of smart office wear for each day of the week simply isn't worth it for a call centre worker who will never wear them again.

Mind you, I can't believe how scruffy people are out and about. I'd never go around down Oxford Street in scruffy trainers and an old faded baggy t shirt, but couldn't help noticing some people dressed like that today. And I'm not talking about teenagers! I just would not feel comfortable in trainers particularly when going into smartish shops.

We had, what I would describe as an 80's dress code introduced . Strictly no denim. Black leather shoes to be worn at all times due to health and safety (Introduced because one person wore flip flops, three quarter length shorts and a strappy top, she looked more like she was going to the beach than working in an office). Descibed as smart casual. If I recall, the email to all office staff, was reminding them of the dress code and listed what was deemed acceptable. It was put in the introductory staff booklet which every new member of staff received when commencing employment with the company. Women could wear culottes

What about knickerbockers - aren't they due a revival?

Ive worked in an office which was super smart all of the time with no dress down days .The cost of keeping me in unladdered tights was eyewatering !

I moved from there to a totally different work environment where it was de riguer to wear company provided polo shirts and plain trousers. There were even toetector shoes provided if we needed to go into the works.

It was the best job in the world. I had zero thoughts given to what to wear for work . It cost me pennies to maintain and there was virtually no laundry as a couple of clean polo shirts and trousers took up little room in the machine.

Sigh .

Im now in another office that has office casual ,dress down days and a no slogan t-shirts type of policy which is adhered to by all. Most of us just wear supermarket stuff and buy whatever is on the sales rails . Seems to work okay.

You just keep on blazing a trail and I'll just stick with the person who gives good legal advice and also knows how not to piss judges off with his manner or dress.

So no actual answer as to why an archaic neck rag is "smart". I'm not "blazing a trail", I'm incredibly lucky to work for an organisation that values ability over stupid outdated dress codes and doesn't waste time sneering at people who don't wear a tie. Judges can keep their daft prejudices - with a bit of luck I'll never see another one (in a court) tie, gown, wig or other daft costume.

Most people don't spend a lot of money on clothes. If threads on here are any indication, then most people don't iron them either.

Smart/business casual no jeans

I would say jeans werent office smart at all. Im in a school and for us it is no bare shoulders, no cleavage, knee length dresses / skirts, full shoes for women. Men wear suits. A couple dont wear ties.

So no actual answer as to why an archaic neck rag is "smart".

That was only because I didn't think you needed to be told what was required in order to perform all aspects of your job.

I'm willing to believe that you are very good at whatever it is you do wasonthelist unless, that is, you are going to appear for me in court.

You could be Atticus Finch, but if you didn't wear a tie in court and you displayed an attitude like yours, I'd probably go with the duty solicitor.

Luckily an Atticus Finch would know how to behave in court because he knew that his job was to represent his client, rather than to posture for his own vanity.

And, yes, you are displaying vanity.

You don't represent people in court, do you? Please say you don't. Because people in court are in enough trouble as it is without having to prove a point for someone like you.

Our dress code includes no flip flops, shorts and clothing with offensive logos (sadly it doesn't include Superdry, A&F, Jack Wills etc)

Personally- I would also like it to include: no Mr Tumnus toes for those (men and women) who wear open sandals, no 'foiliage' for those that wear baggy low slung trousers, no Winnie the Pooh jumpers and tops (yes, it may have been labelled 'crop top' but really it looks several sizes too small) and no retro 'ironic' shell suits.

We do have company polo shirts and can get a deal on chinos from somewhere like cotton traders if people do want a 'uniform' - but generally these are used when we are working at trade events and not every day office attire.

The 'neck rag' is random. However your manner of dress communicates a message, whatever society you live in.

In this society a man wears a tie to convey the formality of the situation. If you don't wear a tie when appropriate, the message you send is that, in a situation that relies on people following the rules and procedures, you don't know or don't care about rules and procedures. That is probably the wrong message to send if somebody is paying you to be their lawyer.

I think if you start being too specific with long lists, then someone will always look for a loophole, and claim it's ok. Example - you could put "No jeans, no leggings" and some bright herbert will see that as approval of "jeggings".

I'd stick to a few broad guidelines such as
No denim
No sportswear
No slogans
No strappy (or strapless) tops
but then add
'Management reserve the right to not allow any item they consider inappropriate when a member of staff is representing the company' type thing on the bottom.

Dh teaches at a 6th form college. Their dress code is "no one should be able to see up it, down it or through it."

Just to be clear, I am not a lawyer. But it is ridiculous that anyone has to wear a tie in 2015. If thinking that is vanity, I am vain -not something I have ever been accused of before but there it is.

Wow! I wasn't expecting such a debate. Lots of you understand the problem and there are some helpful suggestions. Will try and remember to share the solution - and how it works!