To have no idea what to say to this girl?

[DrSeuss]

A Y11, doing her make up in the middle of a lesson when she thought I wouldn't see.

Apparently, I am unreasonable as there is no way she can concentrate with even slightly smudged eye liner!
Funny, sad, terrifying. Her appearance is so important that a tiny flaw renders her incapable of thinking about her studies? Or anything else?
I asked what she wants to do for a living (air stewardess). I put it to her that, while a certain standard of personal presentation is required for this job, other things might also be needed and she would hardly be able to slack off to apply make up!
I 'd ask her if the Pankhursts were big on mascara but the irony would be lost on her. She's a bright girl, lots of potential.

Please God don't let DD turn out like that in ten years time.

"Do not apply makeup in class" is one of my many rules.

It's just as bad mannered to be doing that when the teacher is talking as it is to be blathering to your mates or swinging on your chair.

If pupils choose to ignore the rules then they progress through the behaviour ladder.

They are meant to be listening, learning and working not "doing their own thing" and disrupting lessons.

I also tell them I can't abide the smell of their lotions and potions clogging up my classroom - what is it with pupils spraying body sprays and shit around??

Bleurgh!

combined me too!

I was exactly that teenager and I wasn't thick (though bolshy as fuck) and am quite a good lawyer now though I say so myself.

It's disruptive though as I was frequently told. I ignored the teacher on the subject and was sent to the headmaster to talk about why I needed to sort my nail varnish/mascara/whatever out in the middle of Physics. Eventually I grew out of it and stopped being a little brat.

It's not new or terrifying. It's just teenage girls being vain and pushing the boundaries. Not news that.

Thinking about it, although my ability to be polite and not a selfish little madam has improved, I can't honestly say I'd be happy sat in the office if I knew my eyeliner was smudged. Surely you can't all be saying you'd be fine with that? Someone else must be vain!

I don't wear eyeliner.

I wear a bare minimum of makeup - a bit of mascara and lip tint and that's it.

No foundation, eyeliner or any of that malarkey. Couldn't be doing with the faffing.

I wear smart clothes and my hair generally looks nice though...

I'm appalled but not in the least surprised by how many posters are willing to excuse, trivialise or explain away this girl's bad behaviour and then attack the teacher. Small wonder people are leaving the profession in droves.

I'm appalled but not in the least surprised by how many posters are willing to excuse, trivialise or explain away this girl's bad behaviour and then attack the teacher. Small wonder people are leaving the profession in droves.

I don't think posters have issues with the op because of the fact that she told a teen not to apply makeup in class, it was the way she set out to humiliate the girl and was trying to be clever with the Pankhurst reference whilst saying it would go totally over her head. The girl was in the wrong but the op handled it badly.

Absolutely agree Betty. I am appalled at how teachers are now expected to entertain and indulge pupils as well as teaching them

Eh? I'm not attacking the teaching profession. I am a teacher. Some of you live in a very privileged bubble if you think all it takes is a raised eyebrow and a stern voice to get kids to behave. As it happens I'm rather good at the raised eyebrow and kids rarely misbehave in my lessons.

But I do teach in the most deprived borough in London (Tower Hamlets) and I'm sorry some of these kids are not always the same as kids with clever well educated interested parents.

I never pander to them, never excuse their behaviour and I am a 'bitch monster from hell' (a kids words!) when I need to be. And I also know how to be sarcastic, humorous, engage in conversation, diffuse etc when I need to. Those are skills you acquire when you're teaching.

Ooh typo...missed an apostrophe

And if I said putting makeup on is for 'slackers and slappers' I would be severely reprimanded if not suspended.

crystal I'm reassured by that!

To be fair I can be a slacker and a slapped, but not everyone who loves the cosmetics is.

Who would you rather be sat beside on a long train journey:

a) Someone who tops up their eye liner in public

b) Someone who says things like 'Slackers and Slappers'

Hmm?

The real issue is that the girl was sufficiently disrespectful by applying make up at a time when she was intended to be taking part in a lesson. There are opportunities during the school day for girls to apply make up, do hair etc. Lesson time is not one of them.

if you've spent time planning lessons, it's galling to have them ignored by the people you're trying to engage and educate.

I totally agree that the girl needed a bollocking. It's not good behaviour in a lesson and it's rude to the teacher and other pupils.

I object to the suggestion that she's thick or that this is the beginning of the end for our gender.

Why are they allowed make up in school? This is ridiculous. Is this the UK? By all means some concealer but eyeliner.

I work as cabin crew and yes of course presentation is important! However, that's why we have breaks and toilet facilities. A lot of my colleagues have degrees, I only have A levels but there is a minimum entry requirement of at least 3 GCSEs (Maths and English and 1 other). Competition is fierce; this year there were 5000 applications for just under 500 jobs in the company I work for.
It's not all about appearance!

I was the biggest goody two shoes, rule keeping swot at school. You should see what I am now.

You might like to show her this

www.prospects.ac.uk/air_cabin_crew_entry_requirements.htm
or
cabincrew.careerintravel.co.uk/cabin-crew-minimum-requirements/

The video is good on the second one. You could also point out that not paying attention during cabin crew training is liable to get her kicked off the course post-haste.

It is of paramount importance that air crew respect the chain of command and follow the pilot or pursers instructions. They are also required to be able to issue orders to passengers in extremely stressful situations.

If she is that fussy about her appearance I don't think she will like the smoky and wet parts of the training.

No, sorry I'm not trying to 'explain away' the behaviour. Pissing around in class should be dealt with seriously - whether this be applying make up, passing notes, playing with phone, or whatever. If the teacher told the kid off, gave a detention, whatever is the standard line for this kind of distracted behaviour, fair enough. What I'm not ok with is the teacher saying things like this: "Funny, sad, terrifying. Her appearance is so important that a tiny flaw renders her incapable of thinking about her studies? Or anything else?" Ie assuming that when pissing about involves a girl make up it become not mere normal teenage pissing about to be dealt with and punished as normal, but a deep indication of the teenager in question's intelligence and future and their ability to think about other things than their appearance. I seriously doubt that some lad in the class checking the league tables on his phone would be subjected to a lecture about how this is 'funny, sad, terrifying' and questions on what he plans to do with his future. The fact that girls are subjected to such different standards and extra moralising than boys is just pure sexism and in my opinion completely unacceptable.

One girl (in 21 years of teaching) routinely re-did her nail varnish in my lessons, despite my frequent protests, detentions and my support for her learning.

A few years after she left school, I discovered we are actually related. My great-grandmother and her great-grandfather were siblings. She's an actress now, according to her website.

Op YANBU

She was pushing boundaries. Teenagers do that.

And yes, they're at school and should be learning and confirming to standards and expectations of behaviour. It is preparing for life in the 'real world'.

But I remember feeling so fucking hard done by that I HAD to go to school every day when I'd rather be doing something else and having to sit in lessons which I had no interest in and which I didn't think would ever be relevant to my life in the future. And a lot weren't - trig, equations, Russian (I went to a posh private school and chose Russian as a second language because I was interested in the old Russian Imperial family) - I had no interest in the language.

I think people often forget how school is imposed on young people and subjects they have no interest in are imposed too.

And I agree there should be standards of behaviour and expectations and they're there to learn. I agree wholeheartedly but when I was 16, even at one of the best independent girls school in the country I thought it was a bloody imposition. Because I KNEW it all at that age and wanted to be treated as the mature adult I thought I was but didn't realise I wasn't till a long time afterwards. So i'd cut her some slack. Inappropriate behaviour in class yes, pull her up on it and set boundaries but maybe try again remember how you probably took the piss at her age too.

And I get annoyed with people using emotive language with no foundation. A girl not wanting to have smudged eye - liner isn't 'terrifying'. I worked with adolescents in MH for several years. Teenage girls in abusive and sexually exploitative relationships including sex working for their 'boyfriends aka pimps/abusers) is terrifying. Under 18s who feel their life is so destroyed by abuse or MH problems swallowing razor blades or drinking a litre of vodka a day is terrifying.

And you were very patronising in your post about the young girls ambitions and choices.

Yep laughing. We've had all those girls too.

You know what else is sad and terrifying? The incredibly bright and hard working girl in my gcse class who threw herself off a car park and died.

Seriously a kid being silly putting makeup on is not fucking terrifying. Yes she needed to be reprimanded. Is everybody missing all the teachers saying exactly that. What she doesn't need is the patronising judgement

Oh and our girls are not allowed makeup. All form tutors get given packs wipes which are handed out during form time. This means most kids just don't bother any more because it stays in for 10 mins at most before they are forced to remove it.

But some will always try and sneak it back on during break and lunch. That's kids for you. Shock horror.