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Original poster

To keep these clothes that weren't charged for?

465 replies

MinecraftWonder · 29/09/2015 20:03

Yesterday I went shopping and picked up a new coat each for the dc (at Matalan if it's relevant)- total cost was £45.

I got to the till, went in my bag and didn't have my purse Angry Blush
So I apologised, said i'd nip home and the man on the till put them behind the counter for me.

Returned a couple of hours later and picked up some packs of pants by the till when I was queuing, which were a fiver. Handed them over and asked for the coats behind the till that had been put by for me (this was a woman). She put everything in a bag for me, I paid with my card and out I went.

Anyway, it's only tonight I've pulled them out of the bag along with the receipt - and I have a receipt for £5.05 (the pants and a 5p bag charge). The coats weren't charged for. I didn't even check the amount at the checkout, just stuck my card in and paid.

WWYD? I feel really guilty even though it wasn't my fault. I don't know if the second person who served me just made a mistake or thought maybe they were already paid for (but why would they be?!). They've not got security tags on so one of them must have taken them off.

So keep and look at it as good luck or be honest and go back and pay for them? Opinion is currently divided in my house!

OP posts:
leghoul · 29/09/2015 23:17

I think that appropriation is spuriously wide, and I agree it should be narrowed to the original act/failing to return/finding - but I think I will stand by my theory that the appropriation could have occurred wherever you';re standing at home, and not just in the shop - so it muddles the purity of the actus reus with intention/foresight/Ghosh and so on. But yes, appropriation is broad whether right or wrong.

leghoul · 29/09/2015 23:19

that is my position - there is an extension of appropriation extrapolated from s3(1) so an appropriation has happened/is happening at home

leghoul · 29/09/2015 23:21

I think appropriation is active and present alongside mens rea on forming the intention to permanently deprive when realising, i.e. now.

leghoul · 29/09/2015 23:22

& even if not appropriating now, it's still theft on formation of requisite mens rea later

Catsize · 29/09/2015 23:24

legalANDhonest, I hope you're not a criminal solicitor! Smile
Your theory fails to get around s.3 I think.

Catsize · 29/09/2015 23:25

I'm with you leghoul.

Catsize · 29/09/2015 23:27

The bracelet example I gave (which OP has declined to answer) shows a dishonest and subsequent appropriation at home. The bracelet cannot be regarded as a gift.

PoundingTheStreets · 29/09/2015 23:31

Appropriation and dishonesty do not have to happen at the same time.

The part of the Theft Act which states:
A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it
does not apply in this situation. There is lots of case law where this is used - it usually applies to an example where someone takes property back they already believe is theirs.

PoundingTheStreets · 29/09/2015 23:34

Minecraft - the world is not going to end because you keep the coats. If you get investigated by police and it even went as far as court, you'd be looking at the minimum sentence going. Matalan aren't going to go under and it's unlikely that someone would lose their job over this.

But for all the arguing over appropriation, you can't argue against the dishonesty - it is dishonest not to pay for goods you have taken which should have been paid for. I know what I would do.

AnnaMarlowe · 29/09/2015 23:40

Minecraft you can swap legal semantics copied and pasted from google with MNers all night long if you like.

But it doesn't get that fact that keeping the coats is wrong.

It doesn't matter if someone else 'fucked up'.
It doesn't matter is it's a big store
It doesn't matter if 'everyone else says it's ok'

It's still wrong.

As well you know.

Because otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread.

Italiangreyhound · 29/09/2015 23:42

I have not read all the comments but just responding to your OP.

You should pay for the coats.

Senpai · 29/09/2015 23:51

It doesn't matter what you "felt in your heart" at the time OP. You know the items are unpaid for now which establishes intent.

This scam is so common that, there is a decent change the cashier will be caught, and if something comes of it and you two are both charged with shoplifting from the store, no one is going to believe you were innocent if you don't at least give a call.

Or

Worst case scenario the cashier could be charged with shoplifting, and not you.

mammmamia · 30/09/2015 00:03

Haven't read full thread.

You'll be reminded of your own moral compass every time you see your DC in those coats. Which will be several times a day most likely. Just go back and pay for them.

mileend2bermondsey · 30/09/2015 00:09

As the OP is more concered with arguing about word definitions than adressing the actual issue, I'm going to assume she will be keeping her stolen property.

arethereanyleftatall · 30/09/2015 00:14

Yabu. Only read first page. I don't think this was their mistake. The onus was on you to tell the second member of staff you hadn't paid for the goods yet. We all know that saying 'I've got stuff behind the counter' on returning to a shop implies it's already yours.
Anyway, if you don't pay for the coats, it's theft. Regardless of anything.

arethereanyleftatall · 30/09/2015 00:16

Also, I don't believe you wouldn't have noticed a £5 till charge rather than a £50 till charge.

MagentaHaze · 30/09/2015 00:47

John Lewis refunded me £55 for a top that I was buying instead of charging me for it. I didn't notice until I got home and I didn't go back.

On another occasion John Lewis charged me for something I was returning. When I noticed on my receipt when I got home what had happened I considered taking it back but didn't because I felt guilty about not owning up the first time and it was of a similar value.

Bizarrely, that very same day I'd agreed to take part in a market research study about retail and when the woman turned up at my house, it transpired that she was there representing John Lewis - I told her that their staff should be more vigilant when putting items through the tills!

kali110 · 30/09/2015 01:00

I don't think you posted here wondering what to do, but for people to tell you to keep them.
It is theft.
It will most likely look like a scam between the cashier and you.
She may get fired or investigated by the police.
It's not ok to rob from a little shop, but big ones are fair game?
Big shops lose money on theft, meaning staff lose their jobs, but hey it's just a big store they don't matter.

MoonSandwich · 30/09/2015 01:13

I hope the OP isnt getting distracted by all the legal talk.

ChipsandGuac · 30/09/2015 01:41

AllI can take from this thread that I'm clearly in the minority by pretty much never looking at how much I'm paying for anything. The card gets swiped, I sign, I'm out the store.

Flutterbutterfly · 30/09/2015 07:21

I also just pop the number in and go.

As its matalan, I'd keep them and be ok about it.

Justaboy · 30/09/2015 07:50

OP Think of it this way.

These two coats are going be worn by your children. Yes your children.

Every time you see them in them it'll remind you of this event.

Happy with that?. Then I wouldn't want you to be my mum.

Ask yourself how would you feel if your mum had done that to you?.

Never mind the legal arguments, there're really a sideshow here.

A mistake was made by a shop assistant. Do you make mistakes or not.

How would you feel if you were that woman?.

Suggestion. Make a deal of sorts with them.

Call them and explain what happened.

Tell them that for many reasons you can't get back there for quite sometime your busy yada yada. Offer that you will be in only on certain days and if they would be so good as to send a courier around to pick them up then fine.

I bet their margin is so good on them they'll think its not worth it to do.

You have cleared your conscience. It's now up to them.

You have also prevented any suspicion on the shop assistant.

A win-win there OK?.

Sapele · 30/09/2015 07:53

To my mind, something is wrong if it affects negatively the bigger picture. This does that in various ways.

Think of it the other way - say you went in and had already paid and then you realised afterwards that they had added the price for the coats to your pants/socks whatever, and not said the amount (they don't always, just 'stick your card in now') - and then you left the premises, and didn't look at your receipt.

And then some while later the shop assistant realises you have paid twice for the coats. Should she:

a) call your bank and try to refund the second amount

b) say 'Oh fuck it, today we won, there are countless shoplifters and this makes up for it a bit' and not do anything

Which of those would be right? Which one, in other words, serves the bigger picture more kindly?

Yes, that's right. The first one. Which is the same as you calling the store and paying for your coats over the phone.

Sapele · 30/09/2015 07:55

As an aside I'm keeping a spreadsheet from this thread of those with a moral compass and those without. Smile

tiggytape · 30/09/2015 07:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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