Aibu to speak to school 8.5yr & 9yr old's joining p3.

[lovestodazzel00]

This is my first post long time lurking, not to confident about posting. Be gentle.

My dd1 is in 1st class the equivalent to p2 as we are in Ireland all of the children had to be aged 4 by April to start junior infants in September. They are now average 6.5 to 7. There is 34 pupils in the class from all over the world they are all very innocent the school focus on anti bullying. Last term a young Romany girl joined the class she was 7.5 at the time now 8.5. Her cousin boy aged 9 has now been placed in the class. I can see he is behind boys is age and hasn't got great English either.

These children like all children have a right to an education. It is happening in a lot of the classes now, a 7 year old started in senior infants p2 was allowed to skip p1 was considered to old. I do not the answer to the problem or what the school is expected to do. Aibu to be concerned.

Sorry I'm not sure I understand what your concern is? I'm not being funny, more just dense!

Me too!

Are you worried about potential bullying because a child who should be in Year 4/5 is in Year 2 (English equivalents)

The age difference. He is nearly every years older. Different stages

Sorry 3 years older.

God I have made a pig's ear of my post

Why is this your concern? I assume the parents know about this and agree with it.

What is the problem - their age or the fact that they are Romany? How do they impact on the "innocent" children or the school's anti bully focus?

It makes much, much more sense educationally to put older children in with a year group that goes with their abilities than just putting them in with an age group that matches them imo.

It depends what you are concerned about? If it's that older children will change the focus of the class, then I think that's unlikely - they will be in that class because it will best suit their ability, but if you're concerned about something to do with the specific children involved then it's hard to say whether YABU without knowing more about the reason for your concern.

The parents do not get to agree or this a agree. No it is not that they are Romany at all. The school my dd attends pupils are at least 30% Romany. There are 8 Romany children in the class. I am concerned that a 3 year age gap at that age is a lot. Not saying that they will be a bad influence they may be a great influence when they settle in. It is purely the age gap concerning me.

But what about the age gap? What consequences do you envisage might arise from it? If you just keep saying "it's the age gap" with no reason behind it then you are by definition being unreasonable!

It's kind of sad for the kids that they've put him back. I'm guessing it's going to make it a lot harder for him to make friends. I went to a private school where they did this, it worked if it was a year either way, but anything more than that and it was very hard on the children involved, they stuck out like sore thumbs.

But what difference do you think the age gap is actually going to make?

I'd have far more sympathy for the parent of a 9 year old who had had someone put in their class who was vastly behind because having one child in a class who is on a completely different level to all of the children can be majorly disruptive.

Schools don't put children back, certainly not more than one year, for fun. They do it for very specific educational reasons.

I don't think it will matter much. We have the same situation in scotland and they will most likely be bumped up to primary 4 and 5 when they're a bit more caught up.

The boy should be in year 5 but is in year 2? That is a huge difference!! The 9 year old might be pre-teen possibly. I'm not sure how that can be good for his confidence. I could understand him being in year 3 at a push or year 4. With extra 1:1 of course.

Just for the class name difference.

Reception - junior infants 4+
Year 1 - senior infants 5+
Year 2 -first class 6+
Year 3 - second class 7+
Year 4 - third class 8+
Year 5 -fourth class 9+
Year 6 - fifth class 10+
I do think a child who would be in fourth or fifth being in 1st is is a lot. It shouldn't actually be happening as children should be in their own years or at least if their summer born the one slightly below! But not 3 years.

There is often very little point in putting children, especially those who are often transient, into year groups of their own age that simply puts them completely out of their depth education wise. It completely disrupts the rest of the class (it's all very well knowing they need 1:1, but getting it for the whole time is virtually impossible - and even when it is possible takes time) and is just a continual reminder to the child how far behind they are.

In a class of children who are on a similar level to him he'll at least be able to learn at a similar pace to the rest of the class, it won't be as disruptive and any 1:1 time he gets will be able to be put to better use (especially with his cousin probably being at a similar point). If he was with his own year group he'd simply have to be removed from the classroom to work with his 1:1 all the time - this way he's part of a class.

In Scotland if a child is held back from P1 then when they start the following year they start with that years P1's, as opposed to the English system whereby when they start at 5 they go in with the children they "should" be classmates with. Having worked in both systems I think the ability/maturity/readiness rather than age system is better for the children.

If he moves on as he should they'll likely move him up classes. Starting in a younger class and being moved up will be considerably better for his confidence than being out of his depth every day.

I agree with you naught a 9 yo with 5 yo is a big gap. I can't help feeling there must be an element of humiliation and isolation from his peers involved. Surely they should be working on getting him up to speed for his age rather than holding him back so far? Seems a bit of a cop out on the schools part. It would mean he'd have to take his intersert when he was 20 and his highers 22! Unless they're just assuming because he's a Romany he won't take exams.

But there's something very wrong with a child being held back that far, it can't be good for him.

The other children aren't 5 though - the OP says they are 6.5-7, and his cousin is also in the class and she's 8.5 so he's not completely alone.

I can't see how a 6.5 year old would learn at the same pace as a 9 year old. Surely the older child would just get up to speed as long as there were no underlaying SEN

In Scotland (in our area anyway) they tend to put all children who have transferred from a foreign country in a class below their age group initially. Especially if they don't have a decent level of English. This allows them to settle with less pressure and if they are able, they move them up to an appropriate class as soon as possible. However given that children can be deferred, there is often an 18 month age gap between the oldest and youngest child in a given year so it's not so difficult socially regardless. I do think 2 or 3 years below is probably a bit much especially if the vast majority of the children are within the standard age range. There should already be a wide scale of ability in any given class so I think that is less of an issue, I think there is a lot of developmental difference between a probably street wise 9 year old and a 7 year old.

Personally to me it would make more sense to move both children up one year so that the boy in particular can have better peer relationships whilst still not being too overwhelmed.

I think if he was one child there's a chance they may have put him in the next year group up. However the girl is also in that year group, which means there is likely to be extra help already targetted at that class. Also if he's had no or little formal schooling and is very far behind it will be easier to build confidence in him if he initially finds work easy and is then moved up a year.

In many ways a 6.5 year old who is settled into school and used to the way things will may actually learn at a faster pace than an older child. Certainly when I worked in learning support the younger the child got the targetted support the quicket they made progress (in general).

I think the most important thing is that the OP says that the school roll is made up with around 30% of Romany children, and there are 8 Romany children in this class alone. So it's obviously something the school are used to dealing with. They placed the girl in a class only a year below her age so for that reason alone I'd think the school have obviously placed the child in the class they think he is most suited too.

Speaking to the school is likely to get a generic "We place pupils where we feel best" reply because they simply cannot say "Well little Johnny's parents have never sent him to school so he can't read, write or count at all" or "Mary has learning difficulties so is at a stage this far behind her peers". It won't achieve anything. By all means if issues do arise because of the age difference between the children then flag it, but unless there are concerns about the schools ability in general I don't see what you'd achieve by speaking to them.

He's going to be 10 this academic year though and will still have some six year olds in the class. I guess if he is moved up a year next year so he is with 8-9 year olds when he's 10-11 rather than 7-8 year olds that wouldn't be too bad. But at the same time, if this boy is constantly being moved around years how is he going to build solid friendships?

Surely a child whould be in a class with their peers and just have differentiated work if they need to catch up. It seems unfair on the child to put him in a class with children so much younger than him.

The young boy has not been kept back, he has only recently arrived to Ireland and did not have the level of education or much English to be placed with his own aged group in the school. There has been major cutbacks unfortunately with 1-1 sna's just to update he is very popular with all the class and has settled in really well with the other children.