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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not see the big deal about Jewish and Muslim dc wearing red disks

227 replies

BrandNewAndImproved · 28/09/2015 17:27

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-school-forces-muslim-and-jewish-pupils-to-wear-coloured-discs-a6669396.html

So basically it stops dc being given food they can't have at lunchtime and no way imo can it be compared to the yellow star.

I might be biased in that I am a school cook and before that a nursery cook where every dc had a placemat with their photo and dietary preference. Schools don't do this instead we have a list with photos on and what they can't have but we have had near misses with jelly for example. A child who couldn't have the jelly asked for the jelly knowing they couldn't have the jelly and luckily as soon as the server put the jelly on the plate the child said but I'm not allowed this it's not halal and she had a fresh new plate of food.

Something for the cooks to see in primary schools to avoid mix ups is a great idea. The only problem I see with what the French have done is not to do it for all dietary requirements like allergies and intolerances

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 28/09/2015 19:09

spanisharmada handing in a card us discreet. Wearing a disc isn't. Is that too difficult to understand?

maddening · 28/09/2015 19:10

a fair system would all dc being given a card that they present at the lunch counter - which could then incorporate all food requirements and as all dc would have a card it would not single out any group.

Gottagetmoving · 28/09/2015 19:12

I just wish children didn't have these religious and vegetarian food restrictions inflicted on them by parents and families. Sad

ilovesooty · 28/09/2015 19:12

Suppose your child was in a UK dining hall.
Imagine s/he is entitled to free school meals because you're on a reduced income.
Do you want your child wearing a red disc to mark them out as a free school meals recipient?

ilovesooty · 28/09/2015 19:13

Exactly maddening

Original poster
BrandNewAndImproved · 28/09/2015 19:14

Sooty that is completely different as the food they would be getting would be the same. It's not a dietary requirement so there would be no point apart from to mark them out as different.

OP posts:
Itsmine · 28/09/2015 19:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

spanisharmada · 28/09/2015 19:16

Yes, I'm not sure why anyone should need to be discreet about their dietry requirements even if it might infer religion, they do have religious freedom after all.
It's indicating a meal choice, not suggesting they are somehow lesser.

ilovesooty · 28/09/2015 19:17

It's exactly the same.
Some posters are saying they don't have an issue with pupils being marked out as different.
The reason is irrelevant.

Original poster
BrandNewAndImproved · 28/09/2015 19:19

A card that had to be handed in wouldn't work unfortunately. Think about it in the infants I work the numbers are usually 220 everyday, one person serves the meat/veggie option bit, another serves the carbs and veg and another serves pudding. We have one hour to get them through and they have to have playtime to. It's done extremely quickly and the supervisor dinner lady is outside getting the classes in on a rotating basis. Most days we're putting tables away while the last class or two of dc are still eating. There isn't anytime to look at everychilds card.

The band idea is better. Set meals colour coded with bands for everyone is a the best idea that could practically work.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 28/09/2015 19:20

In DS' school there is no option to send a packed lunch but the school dinner is only served to those children in full day school. If they only go for half a day then they come home at lunchtime.

ilovesooty · 28/09/2015 19:22

If everyone has a band of one colour or another I don't see an issue.

I do have a problem with a minority of children displaying discs marking them as different.

zzzzz · 28/09/2015 19:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mistigri · 28/09/2015 19:24

I'm with sooty here. Even most French people think this was inappropriate, and French schools are militantly secular and racism is common here.

I really finding hard to believe that anyone thinks it's OK to have kids wear discs around their necks to mark their religion :-/ (and in french schools religion is pretty much the only reason kids eat special diets, vegetarianism is almost unknown here).

Thelushinthepub · 28/09/2015 19:26

Im gobsmacked at this. Can't see how anyone would think it ok. It's very worrying

Original poster
BrandNewAndImproved · 28/09/2015 19:27

So French children don't have allergies misti?

OP posts:
Itsmine · 28/09/2015 19:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thelushinthepub · 28/09/2015 19:34

I don't believe they are catered for at school brand

Making people wear a band for religion makes no sense. If you were IE Muslim why wear a Muslim disk? You might just want a cheese jacket potato that day or the veggie option.

Also without separate kitchens how can they be offering proper halal Food?

ilovesooty · 28/09/2015 19:36

I'm still amazed that anyone is seriously trying to justify this.

Londonista123 · 28/09/2015 19:41

I think with young / uncommunicative kids, AND applied across all food constraints (veggie, halal, kosher, nut allergy) this is fine as a wristband or similar - I can't imagine that most schools have the resources to keep track of who eats what otherwise. As a Jew who likes bacon I would be OK with this.

France has a known history of anti-semitic behaviour, so the targeting of Jews and Muslims only is a bit Hmm. scatteroflight would fit right in Grin

Mistigri · 28/09/2015 19:42

BrandNew yes, some do, but I get the impression that it's less common than in the UK, and allergies are often less well catered for. In our old primary school (150 kids) there was one milk allergy (DD) and a couple of kids with egg allergies, but the school staff knew who they were. There might have been other allergic kids but if so they ate at home, kids here usually attend their local school and it's very normal to go home for lunch.

There is a big cultural difference vs UK schools as most french kids unless they have a medical reason not to eat something are used to eating whatever is put in front of them! My dd has just started senior high and for the first time in 12 years on French schools she actually has a choice at mealtimes!! (Not a very good one though as she is veggie and the french think that vegetarians eat fish lol)

Icouldbesogoodforyou · 28/09/2015 19:46

I'm with sooty. Unless it's a potential health -threatening issue such as a severe allergy, I don't want any child marked out as different.

If all - vegetarian meals would make school meals easier than I'm all for it. Vegetarian meals are on the whole, healthier and even if not - no-one needs to eat meat, especially for one meal a day.

And in mass catering the meat used tends (i'm prepared to be told differently) to be not amazing quality. And having worked in MH hospitals for years in the past, the specific halal meat meals were so awful with literally three options on permanent rotation that most Muslim service users left them and opted for a vegetarian meal from the trolley. Which led to twatty staff trying to deny them that 'no, you ordered a Halal meal do here it is......again'.

And I have no patience with secular people who don't want to eat Halal meat as they don't want it prayed over or feel it's 'more cruel' at slaughter. All slaughter is cruel. All animals are stressed by it. There is no humane slaughter. It's all shit. It's all about animals being bred, born, raised and killed to feed the dietary unnecessary wants of humans. And if we really cared that much about the process or the experiences of the animals, we wouldn't eat meat because none of it is pretty.

And I eat meat. Lots of it. I don't kid myself my meat - eating doesn't involve suffering.

Siennasun · 28/09/2015 19:49

I just wish children didn't have these religious and vegetarian food restrictions inflicted on them by parents and families

I agree, the poor children forced to eat vegetarian/kosher/whatever food, it's just like child abuse. Hmm Grin

Mistigri · 28/09/2015 19:54

sienna I suspect older kids in French schools would be left to make their own choices, but this story was about a preschool (ecole maternelle, for 2-6 year olds).

Icouldbesogood there is increasing support in france at the moment for a veggie option to be obligatory, because veggie food meets most religious requirements and is cheaper and healthier. French schools are secular, so offering an option that doesn't need to be labelled as suitable for any religion is a good idea.

I doubt very much that any of the food served in French state schools is halal or kosher, you'd have to go private for that (there are low-cost semi-private schools affiliated with catholic, Jewish and Muslim communities).

Siennasun · 28/09/2015 20:05

Misti I was joking - in response to the (imo) very silly post that I quoted in italics.
When my mostly vegetarian DS was in nursery in France he used to eat meat. The options were lunch that was cooked in the primary school (always meat) or bring in something in a jar. They wouldn't accept anything homemade or unsealed not that I would ever be organised enough to make him a packed lunch anyway, I wasn't even organised enough to buy baby food so he got the meat option
Now he's in an English nursery there are 2 options - vegetarian or non vegetarian. I think it works well, vegetarian is ok for most diets.
We are much more accepting of differences in general in the UK, compared to their countries, including France. I think this is a good thing, personally.