Who if anyone is being unreasonable??

[FraggledUp]

Right, this is long!

My sister has two friends, lets call Sister - Michelle, one friend Sharon and one friend Carol

Carol and Sharon have fallen out, which leaves my sister a "piggy" in the middle. Not sure what the falling out was over but they are not going to every make up and are now "arch enemies".

I was also a bit friendly with both as in attended odd occasions and vice versa, but friend Sharon has become much closed to me. One because during a nasty marriage break up, Michelle was away over the xmas period, Sharon had no family to go to, so her and her two sons came to mine and stayed xmas day, boxing day, so we have always been a bit closer.

I in no part talk to either friend about the other, it's not my business.

Well, over the last 10 months, Sharon has had massive issues with behaviour with her son, she's really been in a bad way about it. I have been through the same thing with my daughter (out the other side now!), so she has confided some really big things in me, things I totally understand and am able to offer a shoulder and a bit of advice. I have not discussed these things with ANYONE, because Sharon asked me not to.

Well, Michelle is now very upset and angry with Sharon, it has culminated in a "how dare you tell my sister stuff, don't you trust me" outburst, Sharon advised that her concern was that Carol would find out from Michelle and she just could not deal with that. Michelle was very upset as she says this means that Sharon does not trust her.

It's looking like the friendship (a very long standing one) could now finish, which would be very sad indeed.

I feel upset for Michelle, but also I have grown close to Sharon, also discussing my personal experiences and feelings, things that only people who have been through a situation could understand. Very intimate things, that I would also not want discussed with others.

I do not feel we have "excluded" Michelle, but she feels we have. We have not met "secretly" or not invited her too stuff. There have been things going on which I attended and she declined, but she was invited.

I don't want to come between anyone's friendship, but is Michelle being unreasonable in saying not to exclude her? After all can you dictate who tells you what in life? Or is Sharon by excluding her on this aspect?

If it makes any difference the contact between myself and Sharon has been either phone, email of text. Only met up at social events with others, not meeting alone.

I can see your sisters side in it, unreasonable or not. She feels she is being ousted by not just her friend but her sister too. She must also feel hurt that neither her friend nor her sister feel close enough to allow her to be a confidante.

These are your sisters feeling as she is allowed to feel that way

I don't think it sounds that you have done anything at all wrong, but I think Sharon has handled the situation with Michelle rather insensitively. I think you should just reassure Michelle that you never intended to exclude her - put it to her how you have here. If Michelle and Sharon fall out permanently, I do agree it is a tricky situation. I think I might have trouble maintaining a friendship with Sharon if it was my sister (blood is thicker than water and all that) - but I don't think that you have a moral obligation to cool things with Sharon if you don't want to. Just make sure that Michelle knows you value her and are there for her etc. And also if Sharon is falling out with all and sundry, it might be worth being aware that it might be you at some point.

Yep, I can see that, but I can't break a confidence, I've been asked not to tell, so I would never! It is only about this one matter, not anything else.

Michelle isn't being very balanced about it I'm afraid.

You can't make people gel with you or feel comfortable enough to confide. Michelle hasn't gone through what you and Sharon have, so probably wouldn't relate to either of you the same way that you (and Sharon) can to each other.

It's horses for courses really. Some friends are great for going on holiday with, other friends are great for seeing once a week, other friends are great for having kids entertain each other. It seems that your friendship with Sharon is very much a heart-to-heart confiding, supporting friendship and Michelle can't expect that to automatically be her friendship. Especially as she seems to be to demanding it X!

You're in a tricky position, but Sharon, it seems, is a support for you too. So it wouldn't be fair for you to lose your support any more than it would for Sharon to lose hers. I think probably the best advice I would give would be to give Michelle an opportunity to have her niche with both of you, either together or separately, but the chips in her own way, based on whatever that friendship might be based on.

Yes, that sounds about right Theycallme, that's what will have to happen. A cooling in my relationship. The falling out was actually quite some years ago, so quite different to current thing (I think!)

Yikes! I don't know how that x! got stuck in the end of my sentence!

Also on my last paragraph "the chips" is Siri's version of me dictating the word 'friendships!'

Tell your sister that, much as you love her, she has lost the plot a bit. Take her out for coffee and make a fuss, but remind her she is talking to her sister, not some random stranger who couldn't give a shit.

Point out that you haven't been excluding her, you just haven't been coordinating your social diary with hers. Give her a hug and hand her a grip!

How does Michelle even know that Sharon has been confiding in you and vice versa? And why on earth would she think that she has to be party to everything that is said between you two when it sounds like you have some specific shared experiences that have been at the root of your discussion?

I think Sharon has handled it badly by implying that she didn't confide in your sister because she was worried that what she said would get back to Carol, when the truth is that it sounds like you were a more appropriate person to talk to because you had direct experience of the issues that she was facing. Perhaps your sister would be mollified if she realised that this was closer to the truth and the lack of sharing wasn't due to any inherent mistrust of her ability to keep her trap shut.

Dojo, I so agree, it's about common ground, I understand her plight. It is such a shame though, because they have a great time together otherwise!

Sharon is a bit paranoid about Carol, I have said this too her. I am sure Carol has her own issues etc, but let them each get on with their own issues.

I think getting close to one of your sister's good friends is a bad idea myself. It's bound to cause upset, especially if the friend is now confiding in you instead of her, leaving her to feel excluded, whatever the mitigating circumstances.

Really, blobbity?

How far does ownership of friends extend? Are your friends allowed to have others, or does your contract insist on exclusivity?

It sounds to me like Sharon is a bit of a manipulator who is playing you and your sister off against each other and is deliberately fomenting the situation to cause discord between you. The only way that Michelle could know that she was confiding in you was if Sharon deliberately told her. And yes, what Sharon said is hurtful, it would hurt to say to someone I don't trust you so I don't talk to you. But I think that was the intention. I think she's trying to come between you and your sister and I think you've fallen for it. Sharon doesn't sound very nice, I would be wary.

I think everyone is an adult and your sister needs to respect that its not some high school competition of who is whose BEST friend.

Your sister IBU.

Soooooooooooooo, Sharon now can't talk to 2 related females as, by doing so, she is being manipulative?

I am glad I live in my own little world. The one some of you live in sounds incredibly fraught, full of social traps I had not even imagined could exist!

She's not 'just talking' to them though is she? She's actively stirring. She has approached Michelle and said to Michelle that she confides stuff in her sister that she won't tell her because she doesn't trust her because she talks to Carol. Even if that was the case there was absolutely no reason for her to tell Michelle that. She's only said it to Michelle to be hurtful and cause trouble between the sisters. I suspect that she is also trying to punish Michelle for staying friends with Carol too.

It's not just innocent, you wouldn't say something like that to anybody unless you were deliberately trying to cause trouble. She's basically saying 'You speak to Carol therefore I have demoted you as a friend'. It is manipulative.

That's your interpretation. I didn't even begin to see any of that in the OPs posts. It all seems to be so fraught, suspicious and hateful.

I read that one friend has lost faith in another because of something a mutual friend has said/done. It happens and doesn't need a conspiracy theory to be built around it.

And of course anyone can tell a friend that, due to their having said something upsetting, they are 'unfriending' them (to use a fb expression).

As I asked another poster, do you really think you 'own' your friends? That they cannot have negative thoughts about you if they perceive some of your actions to be hurtful?

So if a friend said to you 'I don't confide in you anymore because I don't trust you' you would find that okay? You wouldn't feel hurt? And you're assuming that Michelle has done or said something and in this instance we have no reason to think that she has, Sharon is punishing her for something she thinks she might do given the opportunity, not something she'd actually done. If Michelle had been gossiping about her to Carol then she might have a point, but the OP doesn't say she has done.

And as I said earlier, even if she has stopped confiding in Michelle there was no need to tell her that. Why would she tell her other than to hurt her? And I really don't understand your argument, because you seem to be saying that only Sharon has the right to be upset or to be hurt yet at the same time you're saying that Michelle shouldn't be allowed to feel upset that her friend has said something cruel and hurtful to her.

It's classic Mean Girls behaviour.

It's control. She doesn't want Michelle to talk to Carol and she is trying to pressure her into not doing so by withdrawing her friendship.

Of course I'd feel hurt. And maybe embarrassed that I had also hurt her.

But you are making all sorts of assumptions, unless, of course, you are Michelle or Carol!

And I have never watched Mean Girls, so I will take your word for it!

What I am actually saying is that everyone has the right to feel whatever they feel. They also have the right to say so.

OPs sister needs to stop and think about why she is assigning any blame to her sister. That is all I said in my first post. I have made no judgements, read between no lines and cast no aspersions.

Just suggested that OP has a clear and supportive word with her sister before this gets out of hand.

Why should Michelle feel embarrassed she's not done anything. Or do you think that Sharon has the right to dictate to Michelle that she mustn't talk to Carol just because she doesn't.

And I don't think 'a supportive word' is the right course of action in this case. The OP hasn't been deliberately excluding her. But Sharon has deliberately gone out of her way to make her feel excluded by making a point of telling her that. There was no need for her to tell Michelle that she wasn't confiding in her anymore, the fact that Sharon has deliberately drawn attention to it means that she was deliberately trying to hurt Michelle. Sharon wanted to make Michelle feel she was being excluded.

I think the OP should be very careful that she does not allow this woman to come between her and her sister. The only reason she can have said it is to stir up trouble.

How do you know? Why are you so determined to be pissed off about it?

You really are reading much more into it than OP has said. Your final conclusion is so outside the scope of anything the OP has posted.

Because why would you tell someone that you were confiding in their sister instead of them? I just don't understand how you can't see that. Why did she need to tell her? What purpose did it serve? It was unkind and unnecessary and has caused trouble between the sisters. You would only say something like that if you intended to cause a row. And it's worked. Can you not see how manipulating Sharon's behaviour is? I just can't understand how anybody can see what she said to Michelle as a normal innocent thing.