To not want our car park to be a children's playground...??

[LadyShirazz]

Will try to make a long story short, but will also try not to drip feed. This is a long-standing issue that seems to be escalating lately...

I am genuinely interested to hear if IABU or not, so please don't hold back (not that you lot need telling!).

Anyhoo, for the last three years, we have lived in an apartment complex on a residential, semi-rural estate. In our section, there are two blocks of flats facing each other with a private, walled, gated car park in between.

There is a bit of a "problem family" in the opposite block, who have five children, two of whom are boys around 10 and 11. Over the last three years, there have been issues with them and their friends (not from our block) using the car park as a playground: climbing over the walls; hanging off (and repeatedly breaking) the electric gates; blocking the road to the gates with their skateboard ramps; and giving neighbours a lot of gobby abuse when ever asked to stop it (they are all up on their "peedo" accusations if ever spoken to - no matter how politely!).

Aside from the gobbiness, I know this is just kids being kids. But it is now getting to near constant levels over the weekend and summer holidays, and gone from just a few kids to about 20 at a time (aged around 9 - 14, and not from our block), who all join in the jeering if anyone ever challenges them (I never have - cause I am scared of them, which I hate feeling just in itself!).

I say "problem family", as the father is a bit of a thug and will get aggressive with anyone even speaking to his kids. There is bad blood between him and the directors of the building - and (afaik) issues with the boys' truancy, SS and a police track record (one of the director's sons goes to the same school, and is bullied by them as his mum has gone up against them in the past).

I know this as my husband is also now a director of the building (and therefore on the neighbours' "shit list") - but collectively they seem pretty powerless to do anything about this.

I'm aware I sound a grumpy old fart (I'm just 32!) and possible snob - I do think it's a good thing for kids to "play out" generally speaking, and know they are only following their dad's confrontational example.

That said, we work hard in the week and would like to relax over the weekends when we have the chance without the constant screaming from a load of kids, all but two of whom don't even live here...

I can also imagine that none of the parents of the non-resident kids would be particularly happy about twenty kids rampaging across their own properties - so why ours...??

And if IANBU, what can we do about it....??

Absolutely dreading them getting older... :( :( :(

YANBU. But I don't think there's much you can do except call the police when they get out of control so that there's a paper trail to show they have a history of this when they finally do break something large enough to be considered criminal activity.

Extreme maybe but why don't you move?

This is our first property and dream flat - moving would be the very last option.

Eventually the kids will end up in jail at this rate and we can have a bit of peace, finally!

Just keep calling the police. They'll get fed up and do something eventually.

It sounds exactly like where I once lived.
I moved for no other reason.

OP you said they've damaged the electric gates that is a criminal offence,you've said they block the roads that's another criminal offence and the language is verbal abuse so all of those things the Police have to deal with weather they want to or not.

I used to be a an antisocial behaviour officer, you need to record the date and times, number of kids/behaviour etc.
Maybe think of installing a CCTV camera in the car park to keep an eye on the cars and also record any ASB behaviour, this would have to be done by the freeholder or a decision you all make as it will cover communal land.
You need to ring the council ASB officer, there will be one, there has to be, they will deal with the owner of the flat, just because it isn't council property it doesn't mean the council can't deal with it. Don't let them fob you off, they will try!! They can take action against the owner of the flat if he is not dealing correctly with the tenants behaviour. The council should also speak to the parents and explain what is classed a acceptable.
Get your local PCSO involved, that's what they are there for, they should be contactable via the safer neighbouhood team, you should find contact details on the Internet. They should work together with the council. ALL of them will ask you to record events going on as they need that as "evidence".
There is such a thing as an ABC, with is a voluntary agreement between the parents, children and police/council about boundaries for acceptable behaviour. Also speak to the agents of the flat that is let out, they should contact them also and set out guidelines. Good luck.

An ASB officer came round with a clipboard on a Tuesday morning, and said she could see nothing happening so there was no problem.
The police already knew the families well, but weren't interested.

Useless.

Unfortunately some of them are, just annoy the shit out of them like the kids do to you, she'll soon have enough and deal with it!!! People who are shit at their job boil my piss!!!

What a ridiculous question. There are parks surely? Or stay at home or play outside in a quiet and respectful manner. well you would think so but out local council who don't know arse from elbow seem to insist on selling our park to developers and sticking bloody great no ball games signs in what's left. I'm not one for copping kids up inside but when they shit the community centre and it's kids discos, sold the big green to developers for houses for more families, dismantled the park and made it access for the new building site and will build a road on it but doubt they will replace it where are they meant to go,? They're bored shitless

So the directors at this point decide to install CCTV covering the private property that is the car park, because of the damage to the motorbike.

And bingo, there's your evidence for the ASB.

Doesn't make the ASB officer better at their job, but the evidence will be harder to ignore and will identify individual culprits.

I would get the directors to document the incidents which are in contravention of the elements of the lease which are designed to give the rest of the residents quiet enjoyment of their properties, and put some pressure on the owner. The owner is in contravention of the lease they signed up to by allowing their tenants to behave this way. I would say something about the Fathers behaviour in the documented incidents. In fact, the management company of the block I live in did precisely that - one strongly worded letter, cataloguing a series of incidents. It had the desired effect.

We have Cctv. It's always pointing away from them - not a coincidence, methinks.

The two assaults by the father on another director caught on film were dismissed by the court on grounds of "insufficient evidence".

Seems we can't win! Marcipex has it very right here...

Yes absolutely you use the leasehold covenants to deal with the owner of the flat. When it starts affecting his income and he realises he may lose his flat etc. then he will act. Sounds like it's the only way tbh. The Directors can do it as a team.

YANBU. We used to live in a HA property which had a communal playground car park at the end the road. At best it was used as a football pitch. If you asked them to be careful of the cars, you got a mouthful of abuse. At its worst they'd lie in wait and throw things at you, hurl abuse as you got out of the car. If you had a quiet word with the parents, it was always oh no, my child would never do that. Just before we moved, I went down to the car late one night when obviously they weren't expecting anyone to be around and found the little shits holding a terrified kitten, trying to set fire to its tail. I called the police but of course they denied it.

So when I hear they're bored, where are they supposed to play, do you know what, I don't really care. My dc lived on the same estate, had the same opportunities, went to the same school as these thugs and yet managed not to torment the neighbours or be cruel to defenceless animals. If they had, I'd have been down on them like a ton of bricks and would have expected the police to be called on them.

I have to say I have no experience of this so please do feel free to ignore me. I would try all the things that others have said and if not I would go down the route of reporting any incident where n e of the children may be hurt or may get run over in the car park. EG if there are gates which shut and lock are the kids climbing over them, could they be injured etc. Could their play result in them being in the path of a car in the car park?

I would pester the local authorities with my concerns for these children. It is not clear to me who is actually responsible for the car park, I've tried to read the comments and it is not clear but I still feel if this behaviour is going on, unchecked then someone in authority might be concerned. But not for you, for the kids!

I would say if a child does get injured or run over in the car park you will go to the local media and say that you knew this could happen and have reported it many times and to local officials, whoever they are, have ignored you. They clearly do not care about you and they do not want to help but they may not want to get reprimanded or lose their jobs if there is an incident.

If there s any kind of a fight with any kind of a weapon at all, baseball bat or whatever, I would report it anonymously and make it clear there is a danger in the car park to the children themselves!!

This is just cynical old me but I think this is the only thing authorities will be willing to respond to, child protection because it is in the media so much (right they are interested in this but not right it is the only thing! ) and you as adults are very low on the local authorities or police's list of priorities. I would certainly NOT make myself a target for the kids or their families or escalate it with any kind of action unless it was done anonymously and I mean in benignly anonymously. You are right to be wary of getting involved and confronting them. This is sad, you are right it is sad, but to make yourself a target of their anger is pointless. It is clear the family do not care or cannot care properly for their children.

Maybe the shining of light on the anti-social behaviour will flag things up to the authorities who may investigate this family, if so all well and good, but in your shoes I would not make anyone (and I mean even allies from the neighbours) aware of anything you do in relation to this. It won't (IMHO) bring about a better conclusion.

Just my humble opinion.