To hate the assumption I don't work

[LunchpackOfNotreDame]

I have complex mental and physical health issues. Luckily I have a very understanding employer who permits me time out to attend clinics and therapies however they prefer me to fit these in outside work hours where possible, which is understandable. (I work part time)

Whenever I try and book appointments I always ask for certain times to fit in with this

One clinic in particular though only runs mid morning to mid afternoon on weekdays right slap bang in the middle of my, and no doubt many other people's, working hours.

I get that the NHS is staffed by people who have their own lives however if you have chronic health issues then doing 'normal' things like working can be life saving so why is the default position in staff to assume patients don't work?

I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle by trying to be normal here.

YANBU to be frustrated.

I don't think it's an assumption that you don't work though. It's a failing in the NHS that so many services are only available during normal working hours, and you're expected to miss time off work to attend. One of my orthodontist treatments was at an NHS hospital, most of the patients were school or college aged yet the clinic closed at 4pm. Obviously they knew their patients would be missing time out of education due to age, but there was just a huge unwillingness to provide an extended hours service.

I don't think that the clinic is run like that because they assume you don't work, more because the assumption is that health is prioritised over work in cases where clinic attendance makes a significant difference to the overall outcomes. I can see how frustrating it must be for you, but there is a limit to how accessible and flexible staffing for these clinics can be, as presumably anyone hired to work 'out of hours' will cost more and therefore reduce the capacity of these clinics even further.

I do feel for you - I am lucky enough to work for myself so it's not usually a problem for me, but I have two appointments in the same department scheduled thee hours apart next week, so I will be spending most of my day (and a considerable amount of money in the car park) at the hospital.

What DoJo said

Yes, what DoJo said. The assumption is that you will prioritise health and that actually, there do have to be some in-hours services. When I started therapy my appointments were Monday 10-12. Basically it meant taking half a day off at the start of every working week because there wasn't quite enough time to go in beforehand and really achieve anything. And then I really had to refocus very quickly to get back into work. It was worth the hassle, even though I took unpaid leave to do it.

Which is a great assumption if you only have to worry about one appointment a week.

Maybe they need to promote they are "family friendly" to work for?

It#s frustrating isn't it? I'm ok at the moment because I'm home with my 3month old daughter, but I tend to have 2-3 hospital appointments a week due to my ever increasing list of health problems. When I return to work it's going to be awkward. Unfortunately my daughter has also inhertied two of my conditions and gets seen at different times and on different days to me so it'll be even more time off for me with her.

Lunchpack I can see your side of the argument. There's only so much sympathy an employer will come up with. I was told by a colleague to take sick leave but I wouldn't as part of the reason I needed therapy was because of the stress a previous employer had put me under. I therefore had a bad sickness record anyway, which I was trying to put straight. No-one needs the added stress of wondering if an employer will boot them out for being ill, on top of that illness.

I'm not sure what the answer is though. The NHS is strained already without trying to provide more OOH services. Perhaps the answer is greater employment protection so that if someone needs treatment, they can get it without feeling their job might be under threat. In the long run this is better for everybody, as stressed employees are more likely to go long-term sick anyway. However, somehow I don't see the likes of Cameron and IDS producing policies that protect the vulnerable and put some restrictions on what employers do.

They don't assume that you don't work.
It is perfectly reasonable for clinic/treatments to mainly be in normal work hours - it would put unreasonable strain on the NHS to provide large volumes of out of hours appointments. Providing that service would cost huge extra overtime payments that would come out of everyones taxes. It's better for the country as a whole that non-emergency medical treatment happens generally in office hours, even for people with jobs. Sorry but yabu.

Perhaps if NHS staff contracted shift hours were 7-7 for clinical staff it would help some way and wouldn't over stretch budgets because they wouldn't be on overtime but perhaps a 2% uplift for antisocial hours as is standard in other jobs.

I can't see how in this day and age it would be unreasonable to expect an NHS that suits it's working age patients

Not disagreeing how frustrating it is, but it's not because they assume you are sitting at home. I missed physio on the NHS because it was just impossible to fit in working time appointments. I guess everyone wants to work 9/5 and who can blame them?

This is where I've been so excited by the local health authority in the three years since I moved to Shropshire. Previously in Cheshire, hospital appointments were only ever Monday to Friday during work hours, but in the last year with OH's increasing list Of problems, he's been offered the option to have most of his appointments at weekends, including MRI and visits to see surgeons. With me needing to save all my holidays for dates of his operations/recovery etc it's been a godsend.

Sadly the mental health trust didn't fare so well. I was on the counselling list for six months and was finally offered an appointment, which was 11:30 on a Thursday. With two days notice. Fifteen miles from work. Grrrr. Sadly have had to reject the appointment so that's me off the list as all appointments are day time weekdays only.

We are the same with orthodontist appointments, clinic run 10 til 4 so no early or late appointments, they assume parents are sat at home waiting to take their children, who end up missing a good couple of hours of school (and me work) to attend a 10 min appointment!! Very frustrating.

Perhaps if NHS staff contracted shift hours were 7-7 for clinical staff it would help some way and wouldn't over stretch budgets

Are you suggesting that all NHS workers should have a 60 hour working week so as to cover 5x12hour shifts per week, or that the NHS staff salary budget goes up by 50% to employ the extra staff members needed to staff 60 hour a week opening with 40 hour a week staff? (Or would it be 72 hours so that they could cover 12 hours on Saturdays too?)

No. Im suggesting that, like shop staff, they operate on a rota basis. Still a 37-40hr week but on a shift pattern.

NHS workers already work in a shift system. If you want longer clinic hours then the public needs to pay for it. Extending non emergency work without investment means you will have to cut back on the number of staff in the normal working week, at a time where demand for services is at the highest and most efficient. I say most efficient because that's when the rest of the country is working, so social services, GP surgeries, community discharge teams, district nurses etc. When extended opening have been trialled in GP surgeries, it has often been found that the appointments were often wasted.

The British public do not pay enough in national insurance to match their expectations of what the NHS ought to be providing.