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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

..for all the boys in school to miss play...

71 replies

correllia · 25/09/2015 17:48

We have a new head at my son's school. It's a small school of 70 odd children. Last week one child threw a tennis ball down the loo in the boy's toilets.

As the culprit failed to own up all the boys had to remain in the hall when they had eaten their lunch & sit in silence for the duration of play, or until the perpetrator owned up. This finally happened 5 mins before the end of play.

The children therefore had to sit in silence for approx 45 minutes. They are aged between 5-10.

Am I being unreasonable to feel my son has been punished somewhat severely considering the crime (he didn't throw the ball btw!) ?

Opinions please....

OP posts:

Lurkedforever1 · 26/09/2015 18:30

boney in this instance yes. It just seemed like a good example of stupid blanket punishments

calzone · 26/09/2015 18:37

Ds (13y) was angry about this yesterday.

The boys all threw their hockey sticks on the floor so HE WAS HELPING The TEACHER CLEAR THEM UP......

During that time, someone had taken another stick and jammed it into the door, breaking the stick and the door.

He was kept in with all the others until someone owned up, which no one did. The teacher knew it wasn't him.

Missed his break.

Brioche201 · 26/09/2015 22:28

YANBU it is bang out of order, and sexist too.The boys (all except one) are being punished for no other reason than being the same sex as the purpatrator.

Millymollymama · 27/09/2015 00:21

I may be wrong, but no-one has mentioned the school's behaviour policy! This is the key document. How does the school expect good behaviour and reward it? What are the sanctions listed for bad behaviour? I bet it does not say keeping all the children in when an individual does not own up? Complain to the governors. It is not right and how many more times will this be done? It is only September?

PingpongDingDong · 27/09/2015 07:41

I loathe this sort of punishment and never use it with my class. Dd's entire year 6 was ruined by this sort of nonsense, everyone missing break because 1 person was talking. As a shy, quiet child who is never told off it made her feel absolutely miserable and by the end of the year she said "I started to think I may as well have misbehaved too since I got punished in any case."

BreakWindandFire · 27/09/2015 07:56

There was a school visit to my workplace last year and one kid was such a little shit, the teacher imposed a blanket detention on the entire class. The little shit was delighted to have got everyone into trouble. I was not impressed with the teacher.

Notoedike · 27/09/2015 08:05

Dd got a blanket punishment - at hometime they had to hold a hand up till everyone was quiet - every time a child spoke they had to endure another 2 mins - Dd held her hand up for almost 15mins she was extremely distressed when they were finally released. I reported the teacher and things were sorted. I feel these punishment teach children to resent and lose respect for authority.

akuabadoll · 27/09/2015 08:18

Quite right Milly. I have no professional knowledge or experience working in primary education. Collective punishment is prohibited in international standards for prisons though.

MillionToOneChances · 27/09/2015 10:28

Chances are this will probably be the only time all the boys will be punished like this this year because they will all know the consequences of that sort of behaviour and will be more likely to confess.

Except it often doesn't work like that. My son's class suffered last year with the combination of an NQT who was fond of blanket punishments and a child with behavioural problems who was immune to peer pressure. The whole class was miserable, the boys even more so because sometimes he only targeted them. I know a lot of the children well and they were extremely distressed by the injustice multiple times a week. Many parents complained, including a number who are teachers themselves. Eventually, towards the end of the year, he was inexplicably absent for a few days - presumably for training - and this year his pupils seem to be having an easier time of it.

Millymollymama · 27/09/2015 10:31

I would also ask all the teachers who have responded that all the children should have been kept in, to re-engage with their school's behaviour policy too! A tennis ball in a loo is not the end of the world although obviously it is not hygienic. Children are always turned off by blanket punishments and it builds barriers between the school and the children and parents that should be avoided. A clear behaviour policy that is followed always works more effectively for all concerned.

PenelopePitstops · 27/09/2015 12:59

With this sort of incident though, it is incredibly difficult to find out who did it. Blanket punishments work if used sparingly. Every time I've had to use it, someone has confessed, or been grassed up!

Much much quicker than gathering each pupil to interview them (we aren't the police ffs). It is much easier to source information when teachers have an idea of who has done it, but sometimes we have NO idea, and the pupil who has done it can be a total .

Also a tennis ball in the loo is pretty minging and shows a lack of respect for the school and it's equipment. That is what I would punish.

StormyBlue · 27/09/2015 14:36

Once a girl in my class had a bracelet stolen which had been given to her by her dad before he recently died (we were 8ish I think). There was a blanket punishment keeping the class in for every playtime until it was handed in, and it worked, thank god.

I think it worked very well on that occasion and am glad that it was done.

OTOH, the 'Tom was talking, I'm keeping you all in for 5 minutes' is unnecessary.

BarbarianMum · 27/09/2015 14:44

If blanket punishments are as great as several of the posters on here are saying, why don't we apply them to adults too? Local park was vandalised - let's shut it for a week. Dog crap left on the pavement - all dogs to be kept in for 3 days. Drunken bloke on public transport - ban all men from using it the next day. We could try segregating the punishments by age or race as well as gender and see which works best

StormyBlue · 27/09/2015 14:48

I think PP are condoning them in situations like I descrbed, though. If someone in a group adults who had been confined together had committed a crime, they would probably all be searched/questioned.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 27/09/2015 16:11

DD was with a teacher like this, and blamed the whole class for talking. They had them lined up against a wall for breaks. She would come home crying at the injustice. I dont like it. She did say she may as eell join in the naughtiness, she didnt but i bet a few did!!

Casimir · 27/09/2015 16:30

Excellent punishment. The consequent beating from his peers was allowed encouraged I assume? This is a good lesson in the reality of life, randomness I mean.

ToTheGups · 27/09/2015 17:57

Ds has had the same teacher for 4 years throughout junior school. I just asked him her ds what do you think of tea her, is he fair?
He said well sometimes he is.

I replied only sometimes? He said yes well he made all the boys stay in once when someone nicked something of someone else. That wasn't fair.
This incident was the only reason he could think of why the teacher wasn't fair and it happened last year. Yet it has coloured his view and respect for his teacher.

Fratelli · 28/09/2015 12:06

Yanbu. I remember something similar a few times at my old school. Nobody ever owned up, we would go a whole week until the teachers decided nobody was owning up!

LieselVonTwat · 28/09/2015 12:29

Yanbu. Unfair, doesn't work, counter productive. Indicative of someone who's shit at their job, be it teaching or management.

wanderings · 28/09/2015 14:46

Grrr, just reading this makes my blood boil as I remember collective punishment being the method of choice at my junior school.

Are we still in the 1980s? I thought collective punishments had been outmoded along with individuals who committed some classroom offence being told off in front of the entire school in assembly. I used to cry at the injustice of collective punishments; at the age of 9 I once came very close to actually storming out of the room, and the school! (There were no security gates then.) When a teacher took me aside because I was so incandescent with rage, I told her exactly what I thought of what they were doing. I was told I was very rude to say it, but to this day I have no regrets. Collective punishment was one reason I lost respect for school in general; I didn't learn to like school until I was in year 12.

I do remember when I thought school dealt with keeping order better. One of the more sensible teachers used to say things like "if the classroom's not tidy in time, you'll all miss your play. And I'll miss my cup of coffee." By her last sentence there was a less of a gap between teacher and pupil; it was rare that she imposed sanctions on the whole class.

I once managed to outwit the teachers with their blanket punishments. I knew that afternoon playtime was going to be replaced with the dreaded "practising lining up"; so I asked my teacher if I could stay in the classroom and continue with my work during break (as slow workers often had to). Unsuspecting, she agreed. I was grinning from ear to ear as I worked, while I could hear the bell being rung repeatedly as the rest of the school endured their punishment. 'Twas a glorious victory.

As for the OP's example, frankly I'm astonished the culprit owned up in front of the entire school! Surely it would have been far less painful for everybody to say "the culprit has until the end of today to come to my office and own up..." rather than punish the whole school.

wasonthelist · 28/09/2015 15:11

Descalina, as you say -

"When I was at school, the kids that had enough social clout to be able to affect the behaviour of other kids were the ones that were being naughty. The quiet well-behaved kids would have been laughed out the room if they'd tried to pressure the naughty ones into owning up"

Me too - my school was run by the hardest kids, not the teachers. These kinds of "punishments" were common. The positive thing was it made me imagine what prison would probably be like and made me even less likely to commit any crimes in later life.

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