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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Trolls

339 replies

SilverOldie2 · 21/09/2015 13:02

This is sort of about another thread, but not a specific one. AIBU to say that I simply cannot understand what people get out of coming on here and starting a thread which pulls on people's heartstrings when it is completely false. I've seen posters opening their souls on some threads where they are concerned for the OP and can't imagine how devastated they must feel when they discover that it was all a fake.

I'm not talking about those who post something so outrageous or funny, you sort of know it's not true and can have fun with it

Can there be any acceptable reason why they do it? Have you ever trolled and if so why? What the hell do they get out of it? I just do not understand.

OP posts:
WhereTheFuckIsMyFuckingCoat · 23/09/2015 13:52

I completely agree emotionsecho with your first paragraph, but that can be done without breaking any rules and openly attacking/mocking/ doubting the op on thread. Although admittedly, I think (and I don't know how possible it would be), that for this to work for all parties, mnhq's response may need to become faster at certain times of day (being on the other side of the world makes it quite easy to spot differing response times at different times of the day/night).

DixieNormas · 23/09/2015 13:54

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ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 23/09/2015 14:10

Except she wasn't a troll...

DixieNormas · 23/09/2015 14:16

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wannaBe · 23/09/2015 14:52

I have been on mn for ten years. In that time hundreds and hundreds of trolls have been outed and banned on here, some with truely vile vampiric tendencies. dizzymare/the fox troll/izzyruby/the one who had a tiny premature baby and then lifted someone else's picture off the internet to pass it off as her own (I can't remember her name). And there have been dozens and dozens more. And before my time there was the imfamous judge flounce, and the list goes on.

There has only been one instance of a poster being wrongly accused of being a troll in all of that time, and if mn hq were sure, then I am certain that they had good reason for knowing that she was not all she seemed, because IME hq err far more on the side of giving the benefit of the doubt than not. I wonder whether hq would perhaps clarify why they were so sure she was a troll, and whether or not there was something else in her posting/username history which meant that she had a more colourful history on here than we were aware of, but because this particular situation was real then would not be the time to divulge that.

Remember that even real liers and fantasists have real lives to, and those can involve tragedy and loss as well.

For the posters who say that troll hunting should be banned, in all the time I've been on here it's only been the calling out of suspicion on a poster which has led to mn hq actually taking more notice. Dizzymare was being reported for weeks and weeks while she drew people into her lies and deceit. Bereaved mothers who had lost a twin, people who identified with what she was going through. People who gave her their personal details, and all the while mn hq were "looking into this one." And then the twins died and she was back, and the sympathy poured out for her and there was talk of a collection. It was only when someone actually started a thread saying "look, there is a poster who is gaining a lot of sympathy here at the moment, do take care when choosing to believe everything that people say online, and take care," that multiple posters started posting that they too had suspicions and everyone knew who they were talking about. Dizzymare was then banned within hours, but she already had personal details of mn'ers, had them on fb (a totally fake account with only online connections on it, and a picture of her dead babies) started sending suicide threats to mn'ers who had themselves lost a child so felt afraid not to listen in case she really was real and did something awful. She was publically outed elsewhere months later when it transpired her pictures of dead twins were lifted from the internet. Shock Angry this was on a parenting bereavement forum iirc.

CVQ met up with mn'ers in rl, people had collections for her, she drew many, many people in, and again, people had been reporting for weeks and nothing was done.

Izzyruby met up with parents of young children, had a modelling website, people sent her pictures of their dc, and she turned out to be a suspected paedophile. Even the police were involved in that one, but unfortunately she skipped the country.

So for everyone saying "far better that ten trolls frolic freely and hopefully ignored than one genuine poster be wrongly accused," think on that one. Not everyone is cynical enough not to give money to some random username's collection, but some people are. And some people have shared experiences which mean that they feel compelled to give support. And because genuine friendships are formed over the internet and then into rl it stands to reason that the fakes will spill over into some people's rl as well.

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 23/09/2015 15:23

There has only been one instance of a poster being wrongly accused of being a troll in all of that time

Nope, there's been more than one.

I was one of them and I had to send proof to HQ to prove I was who I said I was before my account was reinstated. There was also the incident where the poster whose child had died was banned because of suspected trolling. She too had to send proof her child had died before she was allowed to post again.

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 23/09/2015 15:26

I don't see why you can't just accept that MNHQ royally fucked up in the case of Nobbly. Even they admitted themselves that they did and have apologised. They have also explained how their mistake happened and that their methods for detecting trolls isn't foolproof.

ExConstance · 23/09/2015 16:16

It seems to happen fairly regularly from what I can see, and there must be at least 2 because two MN "royalty" ( one of whom subsequently got her come uppance by being banned for a while) not only accused me on the thread but were talking about me making nasty comments on a totally unrelated "stagnant" thread. I always report troll hunters, they cause untold misery.

usual · 23/09/2015 16:22

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usual · 23/09/2015 16:28

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ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 23/09/2015 16:52

If that post is aimed at me, I always report posters I suspect are trolling.

It just happens that I'm not very good at spotting trolls.

emotionsecho · 23/09/2015 16:54

The reason for the suspicions that surrounded the Nobbly thread are a direct result of previous trolls behaviour as detailed by wannaBe, the trolls have caused damage not only to posters involved in the threads/their lives but also to future legitimate posters - lay the blame where it belongs with the trolls.

There has to be a better way to address the issue.

DixieNormas · 23/09/2015 17:42

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DixieNormas · 23/09/2015 17:46

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wannaBe · 23/09/2015 17:47

I wasn't on nobbly's threads but from what happened afterward nobody was crying troll on the threads themselves but reported to mn hq as per guidelines. So given that it does happen that posters are banned based on reports rather than blatant cries of troll on a thread, what would people suggest? that mn hq never ban anyone for fear of getting it wrong? That nobody ever be allowed to talk about trolls for fear that one poster might be genuine?

People who think that it is far better to be sucked in and give of yourself emotionally than to dare to call someone's story into question are deluded. Nobbly would have been banned anyway. Yes, mn hq got it wrong, but she wasn't banned because someone cried troll on her threads, she was banned because people reported their suspicions, mn investigated and presumed at the time that she wasn't genuine.

So on that basis, I'm guessing that people think that there shouldn't be a troll policy and that people should take everyone at face value and the vulnerable should just deal with the fallout. Hmm

IMO there is more that can be done to limit trolling. You will never get rid altogether, but there are steps which could be taken to limit the numbers of trolls. Firstly namechanging. There is no legitimate reason why posters should be allowed unlimited namechanges. No other site allows this, and mn has far more trolls (both damaging and goady) as a result, IMO. If posters were limited to the number of namechanges they could have this would cut back signifficantly. Plus if namechanges were flagged as not being new posters that would be another step. so e.g. next to your posting name on your profile the number of posts would indicate that you weren't a new poster, of course regulars might be trolls but it would still be easier to know if someone e.g. was changing their name or had created a new account for the purposes of trolling.

There are steps which hq could take to limit pbp's e.g. by blocking their IP addresses. Yes, there are the ones who would log in through proxy's and the like, but the number of previously banned posters who are banned every week seems to imply that there is also a signifficant number who don't cover their tracks in this way. Some would make the extra effort, but some would find an alternative outlet because they possibly aren't tech savvy enough.

Namechanging shouldn't be allowed unless you have had an account for 90 days, or a posting history of say more than 100 posts.

Squishyeyeballs · 23/09/2015 17:48

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wannaBe · 23/09/2015 17:50

oh, and certain areas of the site should be visible to members only. bereavement/relationships which is IMO where the majority of the trolls hang out.

CassieBearRawr · 23/09/2015 18:12

WannaBe is on point here.

There is zero reason to allow such free and easy name changing. Other sites don't allow it for reasons just like this. Although I can see why the feature exists I agree it needs to be limited in its use. If a UN showed up as a regular or old user (either by colour coding, post count, etc) then people announcing 'NC but am soooooo a regular' would be more easily spotted, AND it would add weight to posters who really are a name changing regular (because we'll be able to aee that it's true!)

I agree that sensitive topics should be hidden from non members. I am a member of another forum which has three sections - On Topic, Off Topic and Members. The first two are viewable to all, the third was hidden as it contained sensitive information about the site and accounts. Over time a Mental Health thread was created in the Off Topic section, this became so popular it was eventually moved to off topic to hide personal information. A relationships thread was just moved there for the same reason - what started as a 'I've got a date this weekend!' thread morphed over time into one which discussed serious relationships issues and woes and we recognised that its original location was no longer suitable.

The key is we check and change as neccessary if needs/uses change. MN need to address some of their site issues and adapt too.

laffymeal · 23/09/2015 18:16

The nc facility makes it a trollers paradise.

Squishyeyeballs · 23/09/2015 18:22

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Scobberlotcher · 23/09/2015 18:35

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Scobberlotcher · 23/09/2015 18:38

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Maryz · 23/09/2015 18:38

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Maryz · 23/09/2015 18:38

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emotionsecho · 23/09/2015 19:21

With regard to the Nobbly thread, no-one called troll on it and Nobbly did receive support and understanding prior to it being deleted, (wrongly as we now know), compare that with the numbers of people responding to MrsDVs thread detailing the impact trolls have had on them, they are the ones most damaged in my opinion.