Being devil's advocate - should there be a cap on the number of children a family can claim benefit for?

[ReallyTired]

Flame throwers ready - play nicely everyone.

I feel uncomfortable about further cuts to the support that families already recieve. Young families have suffered enough. It would be interesting know how other developed countries help their young people.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31743031

There are plenty of people who think we don't have room for people fleeing for their lives from Islamic State. If Britain is full up then surely we should be discouraging people from having any lots of children. I think the labour policy of being more generous to families with child tax credits, pregnancy health grant, generous childcare subsidy has increased the birth rate. Maybe there is an arguement for discouraging people from having more children. I don't know. Many migrants are intelligent, hard working and frankly more of an asset to the country than many native born British people.

However capping child benefit combined with the loss of child tax credits will plunge families into poverty. Children have no choice in being born and should not be punished for the lack of responsiblity of their parents.
The child benefit/ child tax credit system is broke and does not help to allievate poverty.

Safe bet. Not date bet

I'm torn because someone like the Radfords who've got 17 kids could be earning £50k and getting £50k in tax credits because they work. Yet if a family have someone who is unemployed, usually through no fault of their own, their benefits are capped at £26k. It doesn't seem fair and is a very flawed system.

I live in a street with people who breed for money, child after child they have no interest in raising. I know someone who brought forward having their next baby so they won't be subject to the cap. (She usually has them 4 years apart) However, these children have a poor enough start in life without their parents losing income. They are very much the exception rather than the rule imho.

I'd rather we spent more money on education, social services and local amenities to give the children a better start and chance of getting a job, then made sure jobs paid a good enough wage to support a family. I have no idea how we'd implement all of that though, just musing.

Saying that, we're poor as fuck and do get child tax credit. But we're working towards better jobs and have real hope that in 2-3 years we'll be comfy. We've just had a much wanted baby. I'm sure to some we look very foolish having a child when it's going to be so tight, but we couldn't wait forever.

No one in the UK with even a hint of common sense and prudence goes from 'very affluent' to 'extreme poverty' in the course of 9 months. There are savings, insurance and legal instuitutions such as wills, marriage and Trusts to protect you.

We all know illness happens, divorce happens, redundancy, death happens and it is possible for the medium to well off to protect themselves against it. Maybe doing so should be a priority between child 2 and 3?

"Britain isn't full up"

I think it feels "full up" in certain areas - oversubscribed schools, long waiting lists for healthcare, jammed roads, public transport crammed full of people. The main problem is that the resources and infrastructure isn't evenly spread out where it is needed.

Imagine i have 3 children, my lovely husband is in a lovely well paid job, he travels 400 miles on the motorway each week (this bit is true).

What happens if he dies in a road crash? his life insurance won't last me forever, my job wouldn't pay for childcare for 3 kids.

What am i supposed to do?

Exactly, Passive. That's my point . In this life absolutely anything can happen.
No can plan for or predict the future.

Something needs to be done to discourage the "I can't afford it but never mind coz someone else will pay for my decisions" attitude.

I don't do my weekly shop at waitrose cause I can't afford. I don't have three holidays a year cause I can't afford it.

People need to learn to live within their means and stop relying on others.

Obviously there are cases where this doesn't fit, marriage breakdown, job loss etc but for the people who breed with no thought of how they will afford it also methods needs done. It's ridiculous that as soon as you are pregnant you can get sure start grants to buy baby stuff. Where's the incentive to have children when you can afford it?

Passive you take out life insurance that pays out an amount equivalent to his salary/or what you'd need to live on if that's less to cover you until the 3 child is grown up.

It's actually quite cheap to do this if you do it when you're young and healthy if you don't smoke. Ideally before child 1 has arrived.

**

Bullshit

I'm in favour of a 2 child cap. If your husband is in a well paid job Passive you could up his life insurance to cover the third child, if losing cb for child 3 would be disasterous in those circumstances for you.

Sure Start Maternity Grant is only available to those on certain benefits who are having their first child or to those who are having multiples when they already have children. It can only be claimed after 29 weeks so not quite as soon as you're pregnant. But don't let the facts stand in the way of your spouting off about people breeding without thought.

No one can plan for the future

What happens if he dies in a road crash? his life insurance won't last me forever, my job wouldn't pay for childcare for 3 kids.

Then buy more life insurance.

No can plan for or predict the future.

No, but you can insure against the consequences.

There are no guarentees but there is a lot you can do to protect yourself, unless you are in abject poverty to begin with. I mean, people pay into pension schemes on the basis that they may one day retire. I am always horrified at how many people just skip the life insurance or savings and who spend on the basis that they will always be healthy and working full time. And yet redundancy and health problems are hardly unknown.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't have any children without being insured up to the eyeballs and with ££ in the bank - I just think if you are planning a large family these are things you should consider first.

I don't have answers to any other issue except to echo that working parents should budget for life/incapacity insurance as a very high priority. Obviously after having checked what's covered by your employment contract so you are not paying out unnecessarily.

"Then you buy more life insurance"
Oh just like that.

If you are contemplating your 3rd child then I guarentee you it will cost you more than 'more insurance' over 18 years so yes, just like that.

Why not "just like that"? Iliveinalighthouse

lighthouse why do you think upping life insurance is so difficult. We upped ours 3 weeks ago.

We own our own business and decided that if something was to happen to us in the next couple of years the other would need more money to employ another person. So we added £50k on to it. When the company is more established and all the work isn't down to just me and dh, then we may reduce it. But the business will ensure the one that is left has an income so it's inportant we can keep it going. We have had to plan for the worst.

"No one in the UK with even a hint of common sense and prudence goes from 'very affluent' to 'extreme poverty' in the course of 9 months."

Sorry Barbarian but that is nonsense.

Yes there should be a cap. There is a major lacking of personal responsibility in this country. Contraception is free, education is free, abortion is free. There is no reason to have children you can't afford to feed or clothe. It's a choice.
If you want to have 9
Children then fine, but make sure you and your partner can afford them.

I never used the world difficult. Just for some people it couid be a stretch financially.

The gutter press have a great liking for large, not in work families or more precisely women with large families who aren’t in work. A quick search of the Daily Mail would give the impression that every street has at least one. However, the fact is that the UK has a negative birth-rate; the population would be decreasing without migrants.

The vast majority of families are responsibly and intelligently planned. Of course, there are a few exceptions but they are statistically insignificant and making laws or cutting benefits because of these few, extreme cases, is mad.

For every Philpot, there is a thousand responsible, reasonable families who deserve not to have the safety net they have contributed to taken away.

As for our underfunded NHS, our oversubscribed schools and the general breakdown of the welfare state, that’s not naturally occurring or because of over population, it’s the often stated policy of the Tory party.

But having multiple children is often a stretch financially. People still do that quite happily.