I'm sick of paying taxes for people to sit on their backsides all day!

[charlieandthechocolatecake]

I hear this too much.

Way too much.

I know I am subsidised by high tax payers as I work for £8 per hour (currently on maternity leave).

So aibu to ask you what somebody must earn in order to not be reliant on other tax payers?

As in, how much do you have to earn to pay enough taxes that cover your nhs treatments and schooling for your children etc?

I'd love a comeback for those sitting high and mightily on their horses that don't realise that just because they pay income tax and national insurance, doesn't mean it covers the services they use.

AAAARGH!

And don't get me started on my aunt who believes that because she worked for 5 years when her children were at school and never again that she 'paid enough tax into the system to be entitled have a break from work (for 25 years)' as she'd done 'her bit!'

Again, AAAAAARGGHHHHH!!!!!

Sit on your arse and chill the fuck out dude.

Don't worry about your aunt. When she's retired and got fuck all pension, well...

I've often wondered the same actually. DH and I have an income of approx 55k combined, yet I am certain that between us we have had waaaaaay more from 'the system' than we've ever paid in. DH had cancer treatment, I had an emergency c section and am due to have an operation next month and have been under a consultant for the last year, DS has had a couple of stays in hospital since he was born, and has just qualified for his 15 hours free pre-school. Those are just the big things, I am sure there are more! All of those things must have costs thousands of pounds, surely? I am very very grateful for all of it, of course, but would also be interested to know how much you'd have to earn to actually be entirely self sufficient and put more in than you take out.

You could knock yourself out by reading through lots of these stats

Form the ONS. ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Household+Income+and+Expenditure

But here is an ONS bulletin from their website.

Main points
Before taxes and benefits the richest fifth of households had an average income of £80,800 in 2013/14, 15 times greater than the poorest fifth who had an average income of £5,500.
Overall, taxes and benefits lead to income being shared more equally between households. After all taxes and benefits are taken into account the ratio between the average incomes of the top and the bottom fifth of households (£60,000 and £15,500 per year respectively) is reduced to four-to-one.
Cash benefits made up 57.2% of the gross income of the poorest fifth of households (£7,400), compared with 3.5% (£2,900) of the income of the richest fifth.
The richest fifth of households paid £29,200 in taxes (direct and indirect) compared with £4,900 for the poorest fifth, though both groups paid a broadly similar proportion of their gross income (34.8% and 37.8% respectively).
Overall, 51.5% of households received more in benefits (including in-kind benefits such as education) than they paid in taxes in 2013/14. This is equivalent to 13.7 million households. This continues the downward trend seen since 2010/11 (53.5%) but remains above the proportions seen before the economic downturn.

I don't think the high earners paying loads of tax are the ones moaning about those on benefits. They hardly envy benefit/ low earners lifestyle.

I've never even bothered about it if I'm honest. I can think of worse things for my meagre 3 quid a month tax to go on. Lunch and second houses and travel expenses for far richer MPS for a start

Thank you investments! That link is very informative.

And hop, I've had 2 c-sections and I know that it will take me years to pay for it in taxes let alone the other services I've used.

I do sometimes wonder why high earners are criticised so much regarding the tax they pay...

Unless you don't work at all you're not being subsidised by higher tax payers.
You just earn directly less than the average tax payer. We could live in a society where all were paid the same, but we don't, so different rates of tax and tax credits even it out a bit.
But the work you do may be just or more important to society than some higher tax payers.

Would you rather spend it on drones then? and greedy MPs' expenses? Whatever!

the tax system is set up to benefit the rich. You are paying disproportionately more tax from your low earnings than the rich . That's how the rich get rich - by paying the lowest possible earnings to those who earn their profits for them and of course charging everyone the highest possible prices.Who brainwashed you with all this guilt?

Thank you amarmai. My knowledge is extremely limited when it comes to taxes and I never thought of it like that.

Lweji, I work with people with epilepsy supporting them to live in the community rather than an institutionalised setting. My work is very rewarding and it's nice to know that I may be giving more back to society than just the tax I pay.

There you go.

Even if you were a street sweeper, it was essential work. Just not very specialised or desired.
If things were fair you'd be earning a lot more. :)

The Daily Mail complains about spongers and tax-avoiders.

The controlling shareholder of the Daily Mail, multi-millionaire Lord Rothermere, was born, educated and lives in the UK in a palatial mansion, but is not a UK taxpayer.

It's about 35-38k for a household to be paying about what they get back.

That's interesting. That the ons say about half of households and the 38k figure. On these threads the prevailing view is that almost no one does which I never thought sounded right!

How about we take another view, for example that everyone is subsidised by tax payers, and actually the rich benefit the most out of it because they are facilitated by the society we live in and pay for collectively.

For example tax pays for workers to be educated, and turns out literate and numerate workers who are able to work in sophisticated jobs of varying degress, tax even subsidies private education in the forms of tax breaks and subsidies. Without this payment, the ability of firms to produce to their potential would be serverely hampered. Limiting economic returns.

If we were to bill each firm for the educational benefit they have been using then they would be paying far more. In fact we bill individuals in terms of student loan repayments, in order to be economic agents of firms.

Health care, allows people to come to work more often through being healthy, allowing a larger and more reliable workforce. It also allows individuals not to have to stay at home looking after granny, mum, baby doris when they are long term sick as they are cared for by the state, allowing a more productive economy.

We can go on and talk about state provided infrastructure, and many more factors that facilitate the economy, without which firms would be a lot worse off

Oh and btw, the majority of the wealthy do not make their money through their earnings, but from their investments, meaning they rely on this state largesse more than most.

£98 billion a year in corporate subsidies/tax breaks paid for by the state, land subsidised and given grants by the state.

Corporation tax currently makes up 16% of the tax take, businesses maximise value from the state and many hide profits off shore. Many of the wealthiest in the country hide their assetts their too, or are part of clever schemes that allow them to keep more of their money than they should, despite the benefits they reap from the society they live in.

We pay our taxes for all this to help them so:

WHO ARE THE SCROUNGERS?

Damm you lurker typing fast. Their, They're, There.. now write it out 100 times !

Surely we're all subsidised by tax payers? They're paying for the roads, schools, police, fire, NHS, education, museums and galleries, and loads of other stuff which make my life better, and which I definitely can't afford to cover all the costs of by myself.

And I'm in full-time employment, sitting on my backside all day. Actually, I spend more time sitting when I'm at work than when I'm not.

And I would say that your job, OP, is much more important than the jobs of a lot of people who earn a lot more than you.

Well said, Lurker.

We're all subsidised by taxpayers. What we give to society is not just monetary and I do not think it should be reduced to monetary terms. We all - in every job, in every role have a place to make society better for everyone or worse for everyone. Whether it's something tangible like health care or education or intangible like raising children to be responsible kind members of society or doing your job with a smile and a positive attitude. Everything we do has power. You might be a net taker from the state in terms of money but doesn't take into account the good you do which cannot be valued in money.