To ask if it's possible to succeed in life with a conscience?

[anotherbloomingusername]

Just wondering, really. As much as I like to believe in karma, and in being kind and generous, and putting positive energy out into the world, I can't help but wonder if it actually gets one anywhere.

In theory, if you work hard and treat people well, they will want to work with you more, and your opportunities will increase. But in practice, I know that plenty of people achieve more affluent lifestyle through unscrupulous means. Using mumsnet as an example, there are hundreds of posters who struggle while an ex withholds maintenance or a relative fiddles the system.

Even in non-financial terms, we see plenty of loyal people who lose relationships through cheating partners or friends who "Wendy" them.

So is there really any payoff to being kind and putting the needs of others before your own? Is karma real, or is being ruthless the only way to get ahead in life ?

Karma isn't real. "Getting ahead" or being more successful than others - yes, you do need to be ruthless. If you're satisfied with being just as, but not more, successful than those around you then you can succeed with generosity and altruism.

Nonsense, I'm successful, I have a conscience, my DH is extremely successful and is if anything overly nice and empathetic.

You don't need to be ruthless at all in a bad way, there is a difference between being a doormat and being ruthless, a happy medium. You need to have non negotiable standards for yourself and the people around you and set goals and plan properly.

High self esteem and confidence is the key, having good coping strategies for the inevitable difficult times as well.

Karma is not real and being and whilst being a positive person and looking for the opportunities/not being a pessimist will really, really help, "putting positive energy into the universe" or similar thinking will not.

You can have a conscience and still be intelligent and assertive. Its being intelligent and assertive that contributes more to getting ahead. Being nice alone will not do it as people can and will take advantage of that. Not everyone will, some will love you for your kindness but others will make it hard for you to get ahead without other traits you need.

I think it all depends on what you class as a successful life.

I what people consider successful, own my own business, work around the kids. I also have a conscience. I purposely run my company in away that goes against the grain in the industry and it's worked. We don't turn small companies away because they don't buy enough. We support smaller business and work ethically. My staff are paid well, get more holidays than anyone I know and all are on flexible working hours to suit things outside work.

I also don't take shit and two weeks ago I threw a director of the company that is our biggest contract because he was extremely sexist, towards me and a female member of staff. I got a written apology.

There is a difference between being a walk over and not having conscience.

I couldn't sack anyone. I'd feel too sorry for them so I'd be crap as a manager. I guess that would limit my success at work.

I am fairly assertive in my personal life but I wouldn't treat anyone in any way I wouldn't want to be treated myself.
Feeling guilty for upsetting people is not conducive to being successful.

I don't agree. My dh is the kindest most generous person I know and he is extremely successful. He chose his profession based on wanting to contribute/do something that would help the greater community and he makes a lot of money. He is very intelligent, has good self confidence and works very hard - these qualities are far more important than being ruthless.

In my experience if you are not a supportive colleague and unable to be a team player, you are unlikely to be successful in work. No one wants to work with a back stabber or saboteur.

Same is true in relationship. My dh and I have a great relationship because basically we are nice to each other- no other great secret. As a result life is nice, our home is a lovely calm, funny place to be, we trust each other to be kind.

In my industry the most successful are all pretty ruthless. I'm not successful in their eyes but at least I can sleep at night.

Sorry, I know "positive energy" is cringe-worthy, but I was struggling for ways to convey "generally not being an asshole".

The concept of karma applies outside of an individual's lifetime though, doesn't it? You are the karmic sum of successive reincarnations. I don't think it promises you that you'll be rewarded within your lifetime for striving for good or the opposite. Or at least that's my meagre understanding.

I think people who strive to do good can be successful within their lifetime and in business too. There is more than one model to follow in most things. But I suspect those unencumbered by a conscience can do awfully well in certain jobs in which in some ways the lack of a conscience is an asset.

I don't think it's necessarily true. My very close relative is a well-known CEO and is an international figurehead for a major organisation. He's also one of the kindest, most patient and moral people I know, second only to DH. He has raised his children to be the same - I have enormous respect and affection for the whole family.

Some successful people will be total shits, but so will many who haven't climbed the ladder, so to speak.

Some people can get there on being intellectually brilliant, having the right vision, and being conspicuously self-assured.

In my tiny way, I try to do the right thing. I recently turned down some really lucrative work (freelance writer) because it would have involved me compromising a bit of my integrity.

Anyway, the OP. Yes it's possible to succeed and be a good person, definitely.

I think it depends on the industry (as a pp said) and on the circumstances. I had a pretty stellar and extremely lucrative globetrotting career at a very young age, but when I first started out I did some morally questionable things to get where I am now. If I hadn't done those things, I wouldn't be in the position I am now.

I don't believe in karma as such, but I was once told that (in my field) to get anywhere you have to get your hands dirty, but to be prepared to weather the repercussions. That was true, everything comes at a price, you just have to decide whether it's a price worth paying.

I think people who are ruthless are generally not going to admit it, and everyone has a different definition of success anyway.

I consider a happy life a success, others would rather a good career or lots of money or a whole host of other things to be a success. It's all down to the individual and their life choices, I think.

TheMother, I like your last sentence, I believe if you do wrong it will come back and bite you one way or another.

VulcanWoman, thank you, its something I've firmly believed for a long time.