to think drivers should have to resit their driving tests aged 75+?

[coffeeisnectar]

I'm not 100% certain what age is appropriate but I live in area with a high number of seniors and some days I feel like I take my life in my hands navigating the local roads.

Instances include the driver who pulled out in front of us today without looking and was oblivious to our emergency stop behind her. The driver who drove into my car on a roundabout (because she didn't see me), the driver in an automatic car who hit the accelerator instead of the brake narrowly missing me whilst shooting into a car park mouthing "sorry!" as a small child in the back looked terrified. The driver who didn't see my partner and knocked him off his motorbike causing major injuries who turned out to have been sent on two driver awareness courses in the previous year.

My own parents are in their 70s and are good drivers but I wouldn't hesitate to suggest they give up if they started driving around like some of the people I see here who quite frankly terrify me.

Sorry, I completely agree - I have witnessed a number of elderly people unable to turn their heads to do basic visual checks. One elderly lady also mounted the pavement and missed my five year old who was not near the kerb. Once i got over the shock I checked if she was ok - she wasn't even aware that the car was on the pavement (reversing into a disabled bay on busy high street).

Even if your in good health, your reaction speeds slow down as you age and your more likely to suffer strokes / heart attacks. I think the ageist thing is just a curtain to hide behind - I'd go a step further, 65 retest and then 70 you give up your licence. Or you could instigate black boxes that are used for young drivers once you hit 65, maybe that would be a fairer measure of driver capability.

I agree it must be hard to lose that independence - there use to be services in place that helped like dial and ride (my gran used it about 10 yrs ago).

I remember [vaguely] some programme about elderly drivers in the USA who reached an agreement with a charity that they should no longer drive, gave their cars to the charity and then had the right to be driven by their volunteer drivers, along with other non drivers locally. The rides had a value so the ex driver 'paid' for a certain number of rides with their car. Also very sociable experience to be driven around. Absolutely the US at its best IMO - practical, can-do attitude with respect and kindness on both sides.

I honestly don't know whether I agree or disagree.

My dad is 80. He lives in N Ireland where the driving test was not introduced until 1956, and so all he had to do to obtain his licence was fill in a form. His driving training consisted of having a spin out with the local postman a few times to get the hang of the controls. He was a nervous and overly cautious driver when he was younger but as he got older his reactions slowed and he seemed to forget all the rules of the road - even though he is still completely compus mentus. I saw him do all sorts of bizarre things and eventually refused to ever let him drive me anywhere, if I visited my parents I would do the driving. Unfortunately he fell asleep at the wheel a couple of years ago and drove into a tree, writing off the car and seriously injuring himself and my mum. They both survived but he has never fully recovered and was never able to drive again.

His pal is 90 odd and also never had to take a test. He regularly drives a minibus full of what he calls "old people" (most younger than him) to a lunch club that he organises for them. He's a great driver and I'd be more than happy to be a passenger in his car.

I don't think you can generalise, but around here most of the inappropriately slow drivers do seem to be elderly (lots of country roads), especially at night. I'm talking 30 in a 60 slow. And unnecessarily stopping on slip roads, being in the wrong lane on roundabouts etc.

I would suggest that it is eyesight and reaction speeds which need retesting by someone appropriately qualified, on everyone, at every licence renewal.

I do eyes. The number of people out there blithely driving away with appalling eyesight, having had it checked once by the number plate test when they were 17, is slightly terrifying. There is nothing to stop them either, unless they get pulled over by the cops and have a roadside check.

I like to play 'spot the eye condition' when out driving. People braking every time headlights approach = cataract, people who just sail out of junctions without seeing other cars = visual field defect etc

When I mention the eyesight issue to those who are plainly a danger to themselves and others I nearly always get the same answer: "but I only drive to the shops/around home".

Even mileage adjusted, they are no more 'dangerous' than any other age group.

They are. If you laid out a circuit of places to visit and had two groups of drivers, one in their fifties, one in their eighties, drive those routes, the ones in their eighties would have more accidents. It's slippery playing "all other things being equal" because they aren't, but for a given ten mile journey, 80+ drivers will have more accidents than those in their 50s. You can play semantics all day long as to whether have x accidents per miles for 3y miles is safer or more dangerous than having 2x accidents per mile for y miles. But per mile, they're more dangerous.

I had an accident at the beginning of this year, icy road, braked, everything locked up and I slid into the car in front. Only doing about 15mph so no damage to the other car although mine was written off by the insurance. I kept kicking myself thinking I should have braked, released and then braked again but seemingly not the case? So now I'm not sure if I did the right thing in keeping my foot on the brake or not!!

If your car has ABS, then you should stay on the brakes as hard as possible. However, not even the greatest work of Mr Bosch and Mr Teves can repeal the laws of physics, and if you are sliding on ice, there's not a lot that can be done about it.

The problem comes when you don't know if the car has ABS...(all post 2007 cars do, bar some very small production run exemptions).

I think everybody should have to re-take the test every ten years. Experienced drivers are often smug drivers. Wouldn't do any harm to have the licence expire after 10 years, at least people would have a clearer idea of what they're doing wrong when they go back to old habits.

I'm slightly gobsmacked that some people think the fact that our bodies deteriorate with age is ageist. It's like railing against reality surely? Is it also ageist to deny toddlers the right to drive the family car?? I drive on a lot of country roads and every time I'm stuck behind a car doing 38 in a 60 it is occupied by an elderly couple utterly oblivious to the 8-10 car traffic jam behind them, creating a very dangerous situation as other users get frustrated and take risks. I was regularly bollocked by my driving instructor for going too slow and told it was as dangerous to others as going too fast. I take it my 78 year old granddad drove us all around the roundabout the wrong way (to much screaming) for the sheer joy of it, not because he got confused and panicked. Getting old and losing the abilities to do lots of things well that you used to be able to do can be tragic and cruel but its not bliddy ageist. Its a fact of life.

I am not ageist. You can tell me I'm u reasonable but I'm not ageist at all.

I do however live in an area where there is a very high number of elderly people, sheltered accommodation and homes for the elderly hence the high number of older drivers.
One woman in her 80s drove into a lamp post in the central island on an otherwise empty road one day closing the main entrance to the school for hours. A few hours later and she could have driven into a group of kids. another one was an accident I witnessed where an old man slammed on his brakes at a roundabout which was completely clear, nothing coming and the driver behind hit him. He was shouting at her and she was upset because he stopped for no reason. I had to separate them and call someone to pick the lady up. He said she was an idiot because everyone knows lorries go round that roundabout which is why he stopped. The approach road from the right, a straight road, clearly visible was empty.

YADNBU. My grandad gave up his license and instead pootled around on a mobility scooter. Unfortunately the 80 year old utter arsehole who hit him on a zebra crossing on a straight road throwing him 15ft, breaking his leg and hip, cracking his skull open, leaving him to die over 3 days in unimaginable pain as his brain swelled, did not give up his license. I hate that man, i hate that i had to tell my grandad i was pregnant with his first great grandchild while he lay dying, i hate that the only response he could give was to squeeze my hand, i hate that he never met my beautiful daughter, and i hate that losing her Dad tipped my Mum over into depression. I hate his family too, they were too scared to get in the car with him but they didn't have the strength to get him to stop, it was bad enough my grandad died but he had lived, it could have been a child! Ultimately he just lost his license, but the bastard never even apologised. In the same village a year before an elderly driver caused a young girl to lose her leg in an accident.

Yes young drivers are dangerous too, but that is a piss poor excuse for not getting older people to retake their test. Both dangers should be addressed, with additional testing for younger drivers and retesting for older ones.

To all saying YABU i truly hope you never suffer the pain of losing a loved one like i did. It fucking sucks, nearly 2 years on and i'm still crying now reliving it.

There isn't a retest at 80
So why does my license expire at 80, not 70 as you mentioned, then?

Actually ignore that last post. Think I'm getting a bit confused.

Not all elderly drivers are ridiculously slow drivers. MIL is around mid 70s and, for years, has muttered about slow old people on the road and terrified me by tailgating at 70mph and taking winding back roads and being too busy looking at the scenery to pay attention.

She got caught and had to take a speed awareness course, recently. She's pretty spritely, but her concentration is dreadful.

So why does my license expire at 80, not 70 as you mentioned, then?

I have no idea. My licence expires at 70, but I'll just need to fill in a form and a medical declaration. Maybe your licence isn't a UK one?

And while I won't cry ageism at the suggestion that driving ability can deteriorate in old age, for a huge variety of reasons, I don't think a blanket re-test at 80 would be the answer. My dad had to persuade his brother to give up driving, last year, because his health was declining and his ability to drive safely had taken a nosedive. His brother's health declined so rapidly that they buried him, last month. A neighbour is in the same position. At the beginning of the year, his dad was independent and driving around and able to take care of his needs. Since then, he has suffered a terrifying decline in his faculties to the point that he's been hospitalised. He had to have that "we need to sell your car" conversation just this summer but the speed he's gone from not quite up to it any more to unable to even take care of basic things has been astonishing.

I had an elderly relative who all family members agreed was a danger to himself and others - he was reported to DVLA. I am not sure of the exact mechanism, but he wound up taking a test, during which he drove perfectly, and immediately afterwards resumed his hazardous ways.

Anyway, as I said upthread, and was ignored so presumably will be again; this cannot ever happen. The logistics and practicalities are unworkable.

I don't know if I would argue for a retest per se, maybe more of a health MOT to check eyesight, spacial awareness, range of movement in the head and neck and reaction times. It's not in the slightest bit ageist to admit these things deteriorate with age and I think there'd be many people who would feel more confident going out on the road knowing that they have the tools and physical ability to drive safely. And for those who aren't fit- well, you feel sorry for them and the impact it has on their independence, but there are some things more important than being able to nip to the shops as and when you'd like.

craic i was coming on to say something similar - rather than retest, how about basic simple (compulsory) eyesight and reaction tests starting at 65/70? Then again every 5 years?

No blanket bans for those who fail, but potential problems can be flagged up and future tests can see if there's been deterioration. Previously undiagnosed eye problems caught early, corrected with glasses (checked by a re-test) wouldn't necessitate a ban, just sensible treatment (and may just save a life).

How about a requirement to complete a theory test every few years starting at 65 if you passed your test more than 5 or 10 years previously?

I've been driving for yonks, but as i've helped each of my DCs to swat for their theory tests it's done me good to be reminded of the basic road rules and regs and safety precautions. Simple things like being reminded of stopping distances, how to work out speed limits when there's no visible signs, etc. Can all only be good.

I'm just imagining how many people would be angry at the idea of being forced to spend time swatting up for a theory test now, forced to give up time for a physical check, forced to pay £10/15 towards those checks every 5 years ...

How easy it is to find yourself feeling you have an absolute right to be driving without hindrance:

• because you've already passed a test (however long ago),
• because you think your driving is perfect and it's 'everybody else',
• because you pay a lot of money for your car/road tax/petrol, and so on.

mitzi
last week I followed an elderly gent who was driving down a single track country road (speed limit 60) at 15 mph.
if it genuinely was a single track road it may be NSL but not every road (especially single track country lanes) was assessed for speed suitability I agree 15 mph was too slow but 60 mph would have been suicide.

I have had to persuade two people to stop driving. One was my DF who, after at least 2 strokes and several heart attacks, was so frail that walking the dozen steps from his living room to the toilet had to rest in the toilet for half an hour before he could go back. He thought that he could go out of the front door, along a path, down some steps (hideously narrow and dangerous even when fit and well), and along the pavement to his car and then get it and drive. I had to bully the GP into telling him that he was no longer fit to drive. She didn't want to do it, despite admitting to me that he was not fit to drive. He railed at me that he was losing his independence, but it was long gone after 3 months in hospital. The argument that finally persuaded him was when i pointed out I had lost my DM in a car accident (she was the passenger) and I didn't want a matched pair.

The other person was my friend's mother. She had been in hospital with severe pneumonia and was told by the doctor (unusually) that she had to give up driving. She willingly gave me her car keys and i kept them. She wanted to resume driving when she was released from the hospital and because of the onset of dementia, she had no recollection of being told she had to give up. We managed to get her to sign the necessary documents allowing me to sell the car on her behalf, but only after lots of tears and shouting. Her argument was that she only drove locally, and very slowly - she barely managed to get into second gear. She was a danger to herself and everyone else on the road.

There does come a time when people are not fit to drive. I am a driver and I will be giving up my car when I am retired. I don't care if it is ageist of me, but I don't think elderly people should be driving. As you get older, your reflexes slow. It terrifies me to think of my loved ones driving when they really aren't able. At the very least, there should be extremely strict testing each and every year - eyes, reflexes, mobility - that should be carried out by an examiner. Anyone can sign a form to say they are fit to drive - even when they clearly aren't.

YANBU

It's often only the reactions of other, younger, drivers that prevent incidents.

I'd like to know how many crashes were caused by incompetent elderly drivers who continue on their way totally unaware that they've caused them!

For all those saying "if they lose their licence, they'll lose the will to live" etc - you're essentially saying that you know they're not fit to be on the roads, but that you'd rather they stayed on them to prevent hurt feelings!!

As Craic says - a simple Eyesight & Reaction MOT would be the solution - make it for everyone every 5 years, becoming yearly after 70 or so, it could be used to flag up those that require more investigation as to their suitability to drive.

I'm afraid I agree with the OP. It's the absolute obliviousness to other road users that's so alarming. MIL's DH trundles along at 30 on a fast 60 mph limit A road, oblivious to the queue of frustrated drivers behind him. And he stands outside his own house shouting and gesticulating at drivers he perceives to be going too fast (they aren't), unaware of what a dangerous distraction he's being. FIL swerves around all over the show, pointing out local landmarks.

Surely if some seniors are frightened of losing their license then they should be proactively getting themselves onto refresher driving courses. Just sending them in their way is crazy. Being old doesn't relieve you of responsibility.

Can't imagine the govt bringing in compulsory re-testing, physical checks etc they'd lose too many votes now the baby boomers are reaching retirement.

that's true.

It shouldn't be made political. Shouldn't be allowed to be made political either. What is the way around this? Make road safety issues an 'across all parties' decision somehow?