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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Not to have spent the summer coaching DS?

30 replies

SolidGoldBrass · 12/09/2015 12:54

He's just started Year 6 and this week he is taking the Selective Entrance Test or whatever they call it for the local grammar schools. I have not wanted to blight his summer by flapping about education, so we haven't done much more than a couple of practice tests in those books you can by from WH Smiths.
DS is clever but I think he is getting a little anxious. Any tips on reassuring him?

OP posts:

MaddyinaPaddy · 12/09/2015 14:00

My DD2 did 11+ this morning and got the timing all wrong so ended up having to guess about 25% of the NVR questions, and she has practised all summer!! So No YANBU!

Pidapie · 12/09/2015 14:08

Just tell him that as long as he does his best at the time, then it's good enough for you. It's not the end of the world not getting in. I think you've done right by not making him work all summer!

TheSecondOfHerName · 12/09/2015 14:16

He would possibly be anxious even if he had practised all summer. Just keep him busy and distract him with other things to keep his mind off it. How long until he finds out how he did?

LittleRedRidingHoodie1 · 12/09/2015 15:11

You've taught him more over the summer by not coaching him than you would have by coaching him. Lie is more than test results- I think you've done a good thing.

LittleRedRidingHoodie1 · 12/09/2015 15:11

Life*

No 11+ pass for me!!!

redexpat · 12/09/2015 15:34

Thats how it should be imo. Children who are coached may not be able to keep up when they get to a grammar school.

MaddyinaPaddy · 12/09/2015 16:08

I don't kinow where you are Op, but here it is about time management iebeing able to do the questions FAST.I think most of them need practise to be able to gauge when they have spent enough time on a question and it is time to move on.
Fortunately here they have 2 whacks at it-this Saturday and next.Nerves got the better of DD today!

EssexGurl · 12/09/2015 16:51

DS is doing his next week. We got a couple of past papers from the website and he has done some tests in the holidays - the 30 min ones - and that is all. Our GS heads advise is not to tutor to death. It won't help them when they get there.

It DS gets in it will because he deserves it and I won't worry about him when he starts as I know he is bright enough.if he doesn't get to GS he will go to a lovely comp round the corner.

Hate hate hate tutoring.

Good luck to your lad.

LilyTucker · 12/09/2015 16:58

Lucky you had the choice Essex re tutoring. My DC hadn't covered the curriculum so had to be tutored.Some might say what you did is tutoring anyway. Our grammar schools advice you to familiarise and give you the materials to do so. The work my DC have DC certainly hasn't held them back,quite the reverse. They were level 5/6 students anyway.

steppemum · 12/09/2015 17:17

there is a massive difference between tutoring and preparing for the test.

dd sat this morning, we have done preparation. It was mostly revision of stuff learned in school, but this time making sure she knew the correct maths and English terminology, and would remember it.
We taught her exam technique, like time balance and filling in an answer for everything. What to do when stuck on a question etc.

We are a super selective area. Without that prep she wouldn't have stood a chance.

Tutoring is the intensive teaching of kids for 1-2 years to raise them beyond their natural level as it were.

Yes life is about more than exams. But a lesson to learn is also that things worth having are worth working for. We worked for 2 weeks. Everything we did will help her in school anyway. I think it was worth the 2 weeks work to have a go. She knows that all we ask is for her to do her best. We have visited the grammar and a good alternative, we have been careful to be clear that it isn't second best.

budgiegirl · 12/09/2015 17:35

I agree that you shouldn't coach extensively, but children do need to be familiar with the type of question, practise timings etc.

As the head of the top grammar school in our area said to parents at an open evening 'Would you send someone to take a driving test without being familiar with a car?'

LunchpackOfNotreDame · 12/09/2015 17:36

We've just done exam practice so they get used to having to be quiet for that length of time!

As for reassurance just don't mention it any more. Don't make it into a big deal

SelfRaisingFlour · 12/09/2015 17:55

That's fine if you don't care if he gets in or not. If you and he really wanted it, you would have needed to put some effort in.

I personally wouldn't send a child into an exam unprepared, but that is the decision you made.

SelfRaisingFlour · 12/09/2015 17:59

Sorry that sounded a bit harsh, but it's a bit late to do anything about it now.

CinderellaRockefeller · 12/09/2015 18:23

Depends which you think is more important, a lovely summer or a grammar school education. Utterly agree with selfraisingflour, if you want something you need to work for it. If you don't want it for him that much then just reassure him by telling him it doesn't matter if he gets in?

Original poster

SolidGoldBrass · 12/09/2015 19:43

It doesn't matter that much. It will be nice if he does but not the end of the world if he doesn't.
And no child in the UK who has been educated in an ordinary school is 'unprepared' for exams. They've all sat their KS1 sats as it is, and various tests.

OP posts:

LilyTucker · 12/09/2015 19:56

Um wrong.

The test which is level 5/6 in content is in the Sep of year 6 and many kids don't get to cover the level 5/6 curriculum until year 6 after the exam.

If you do CEM exam you need to have had vigorous quality maths teaching in the lead up. My dd hadn't done Bodmas, long division/multiplication let alone ratio,conversion, percentages and a shed load of other stuff at the level required. It's very maths heavy and uber fast. It's tape recorder lead and you do say 15 questions in 6 minutes and are moved on in each section whether you've finished or not.

More private kids are passing said exam. The reason for that is private kids have vigorous maths teaching and access to the curriculum required at the level required before the exam.

If anybody can tell me how a child can do lightening speed maths calculations without being proficient in long division of say decimals then I'll believe that all state kids in ordinary schools are well prepared.

steppemum · 12/09/2015 20:07

I agree with Lily.

My (state educated) dd has had excellent maths teaching she knew all the concepts required., as they have been taught the year 6 stuff in her maths group. But there were significant gaps. They had not done BODMAS, she hadn't done percentages, she didn't have things like mode median and mean at her fingertips. She needed revision on internal angles of a triangle adding up to 180 and so on.
The issue wasn't that she didn't know them, the issue was that she didn't know them instantly without working out at top speed.

Also the idea that SATs at KS1 is in any way an exam preparation is laughable. Things like - watch the clock, if you get stuck, make a sensible guess and move on, use the 5 answers given to help you, fill in answers for all the questions, even if you haven't had a chance to do them, because it is multiple choice.

dd has never sat a proper exam like this before.
Sorry Op, but I really don't think you have any idea of the exam.

SugarPlumTree · 12/09/2015 20:21

If you aren't fussed it is fine. But in my experience they do need a bit of preparation to know the timing.

DS went in pretty much cold having decided 2 weeks before that he wanted to do it. Grandparents were seriously ill at the time and had stacks of homework. He did one timed English paper (that he did the best in) and we looked through the Maths, VR and NVR to see types of questions but had no time to do them.

He failed by half a mark. In contrast he got L6 in reading and Maths in SATs this summer whilst feeling not particularly well .We didn't do anything with him at home but assumably school prepared him properly which is what made the difference,

I'd get him to do a few papers to practice if there is still time.

Original poster

SolidGoldBrass · 12/09/2015 20:39

Oh we've already talked about moving on if you're stuck and coming back to the question later. It is all multiple choice, which means the odds are not too bad on getting some of the ones he's not sure about right anyway.
I shall just tell him to do his best and we'll see what happens. He was getting 80% 85 % in the tests we have tried so he'll probably be OK if he doesn't panic.

OP posts:

Ladymuck · 12/09/2015 20:48

Did he do either of the mocks organised by the PTAs at Sutton or Wallington Boys? At least that gives him a taste of seeing a large number of children he doesn't know appearing for the same exam. Even then I think that the mocks have only a few hundred children attending on the day. Attending an exam with 800+ other children in an unfamiliar building is a very different experience from sitting KS1 SATS. Do allow plenty of time to get to the exams especially if you live nearby.

I think that the "concerns" about tutoring/preparation have become less of an issue now that these tests are focused on Maths and Literacy rather than the more obscure arts of non verbal and verbal reasoning. Any preparation for the tests will be of benefit to a child whichever school they end up in, so many more parents than before have now encouraged their children to prepare. It helps with the CAT type tests many secondary schools set in the summer to set children and determine their minimum target grades for GCSEs etc.

However it is interesting that your ds has only just become anxious. IME a lot of children started tutoring/prep in year 5 and by January that year ds had noticed that some of his classmates were now improving significantly and he was sliding down the class in terms of ability (we weren't looking to put him in a single sex school, so hadn't started tutoring). That said most of his classmates were sitting, so it may be different if only a couple are.

I guess you know how resilient he is. As had already been said the tests are time pressured, especially the English paper, so it is worth preparing him mentally for it - he is responsible for ensuring that he keeps to time, he can't rely on someone else telling him that he has 5 minutes left etc.

LunchpackOfNotreDame · 12/09/2015 20:48

Have a look on the 11+ forums and look at the entry pass marks for each year. In our county they standardise the scores so they're a bugger to work out but last year 48/60 on one paper and 38/60 on the other got an in catchment child into the school with the highest entry marks.

If your child has been learning ahead of their age group average they'll pass no issues providing they have the exam technique sorted.

Ladymuck · 12/09/2015 20:55

If this is the SET then the passmark will be set so that around 1500-1800 children pass for the approx 855 places across 5 schools. But if he is scoring 85% on English including cloze questions then he should indeed be fine. But worth noting that English has been 72 questions in 45 minutes, which is tighter timing than some of the commercially available papers. IME Sutton schools places are won on the English paper, as many children fail to finish it.

Original poster

SolidGoldBrass · 12/09/2015 21:03

Ladymuck - are you someone I know? I didn't mention which borough is involved but you're right, it's Sutton.

DS is 5C in everything according to his last school report and loves quizzes so I have been telling him to treat it like he's on The Chase.

OP posts:

apricotdanish · 12/09/2015 21:07

I worked out you were doing Sutton tests and I don't know you. Once you've been through it's clear . Best of luck to your son .

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