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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not be a guarantee for my adult friend

89 replies

Rufusgy · 12/09/2015 07:33

I've got a very close friend that is moving homes. She's ask me to be her guarantee for the next rental place.

Firstly I'm not sure why she needs one apart from the rental on the new place is ridiculous high in comparison to her earnings. She needs someone that earns in excess of 45k and this is more than double what she earns.

She is wanting to rent a two bed flat in london on her wages. For what its worth I rent a one bed in a city much cheaper.

She says she can afford it from the "profit" on her buy to let's, Shes just buying another one. However I'm concerned as she sees any money left over as being profit from these buy to lets and is counting on nothing ever going wrong or no matainace. I think if something did go wrong, had a void or interest rates rose she would very quickly come a cropper.

So aibu to just say no? She's saying that she would never hold me to it, but the rental is probabaly close to her net income each month. Her parents can't be it, as they don't earn enough.

I haven't been asked to have a guarantee since I was a student. Are they doing this because of the low wage and high rent?

OP posts:
nagynolonger · 12/09/2015 12:52

No don't do it. We have had no choice but to be guarantors for our student DC. They would not be able to go to university without us agreeing to this.

Other than for student DC I would refuse even for family.

DoreenLethal · 12/09/2015 12:54

OP it sounds like you have no real understanding of her financial affairs; and even if you did you'd be a fool to be a guarantor for someone whose affairs are so woolly.

Step away and please don't get entangled in this. The only outcome will be a financial loss for you in one way or other.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 12/09/2015 13:01

"No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No."

Don't beat around the bush, MrsSchadenfreude - say what you really think! WinkGrin

OP - I think you have been given, and have clearly taken on board, good advice here. I would not touch this situation with a bargepole - 'No' is the only sensible answer.

ToGoBoldly · 12/09/2015 13:04

But please come back and tell us if she throws an unreasonable hissy fit about it!

FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse · 12/09/2015 13:10

Glad you're not going to do this. It could end terribly.

I would only ever go guarantor for my dcs, and even then, only if they could prove they could genuinely afford it.

WhereYouLeftIt · 12/09/2015 13:23

"She's saying that she would never hold me to it"
She wouldn't have any say in the matter, and it's lying disingenuous to pretend she has.

Yep, don't say you're 'not comfortable' with it, it gives her the opportunity to persuade you. I'd probably say something along the lines of 'you could be hit by a bus and that would leave me in the shit.' Something really blunt. 'No, it's a risk.' And yes, point out that whilst she says she wouldn't hold you to it, her landlord would. Make it clear that you KNOW what being a guarantor actually entails thank you very much.

mrsleomcgary · 12/09/2015 15:16

I work for a lettings agent and would never EVER be gurantor for anyone,apart from maybe my own kids when the time comes for them to go to uni.

We have a case at work at the moment,tenant has done a bunk owing thousands and we cant trace him at all. Guarantor has refused to pay the rent arrears,so it's the guarantor who is being now being taken to court.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/09/2015 15:53

No way, you are held responsible. You have said that she is not wise with money. all the more to decline.

Andrewofgg · 12/09/2015 15:53

Just as a matter of interest has the guarantor refused to pay or cliamed to be unable to pay? And if the first on what grounds?

Original poster
Rufusgy · 12/09/2015 16:06

All done now, wasn't happy but fuck her for putting me in that situation.

Thanks so much , glad I didn't go down the "uncomfortable " root. That wouldn't of been good.

OP posts:
contractor6 · 12/09/2015 16:09

Shes commited fraud with the kitchen for one. I wouldn't be a guarantor, you are liable from landlord. Say you are risk averse, that you don't want the stress of losing a friendship over money.

LittleMissIntrovert · 12/09/2015 16:18

Well done OP you've done the right thing saying no.

If she tries it on again, just say no. You don't have to explain yourself.

If she is a real friend she will understand. If she tries to make you feel bad, that reflects badly on her rather than you.

Aeroflotgirl · 12/09/2015 16:19

Well it sounds as though she is nit that a good friend, by her reaction. Good on you, you don't need that responsibility, it's nit fair on you.

PurpleHairAndPearls · 12/09/2015 16:20

Goodness, we can bet what the response would be if the "friend" wanting a guarantor was fraudulently claiming housing benefit. But committing tax evasion using a BTL doesn't even seem to register here. It does annoy me.

Glad you've decided not to do it OP, as it's a huge commitment and you risk, as PP said, a CCJ if she defaults and you can't pay. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it for a friend, although I don't think I would feel comfortable having a friend who evades tax to start with, and who was "selfish" and "uncompassionate".

areyoubeingserviced · 12/09/2015 16:34

Please don't do it.
My Dh did the same for a so called friend .
Big mistake

specialsubject · 12/09/2015 16:46

it does register that this person is probably committing tax fraud, and several have commented on it. Of course we don't know the whole story but from what the OP says, sounds like the person is a crook.

I know it does ruin the fun when landlords say (as every single one on here does) that we don't like crooked landlords.

Impostersyndrome · 12/09/2015 16:53

A close relative of mine ended up bankrupt after being chased for a mortgage he guaranteed for a friend 20 years ago. Sickening.

Glad you were able to say no. Sometimes it's hard with a good friend.

mrsleomcgary · 12/09/2015 16:55

Assume that question was for me andrew?

if so,shes refused on the basis that she told us she no longer wanted to be guarantor about 3 months before the arrears really began to pile up. Once you sign up to be guarantor you're guarantor for the duration of the tenancy,unless another one is provided. Another guarantor wasnt provided and the landlord refused to let him stay without one as there was already issues with late payments etc. she is arguing that by notifying us she wasnt willing to be guarantor her responsibility is relinquished.

BabyGanoush · 12/09/2015 16:55

how did she take it?

Be careful with her, she is already committing fraud (with the kitchen) and clearly is fairly hard-nosed and unscrupulous in using people to her advantage...

Cannot believe you even considered it.

BMW6 · 12/09/2015 17:19

Your friend is as dodgy as fuck.

Andrewofgg · 12/09/2015 17:25

Thank you mrsleomcgarry - Assuming the guarantee is competently drawn she is on a hiding to nothing.

Wouldn't it be lovely if you could give a guarantee to get your friend into the property then withdraw it when it suited you . . .

Good luck!

Spartans · 12/09/2015 17:26

Maybe I am thinking of someone else but I thought in your other threads you thought she was tax dodging and said she was a friend of a friend. You seemed quite annoyed at the time that she was tax avoiding. There was a long discussion on the difference between being tax efficient/avoidance and evasion.

Why are you getting closer to someone who you entirely disagree, morally, with and puts you in shit positions?

hibbleddible · 12/09/2015 17:34

Well done on refusing.

The only people I would ever be a guarantor for is my children. It's a huge commitment, and not a reasonable one to expect of a friend.

Original poster
Rufusgy · 12/09/2015 18:34

Wow Spartans! I didn't know people have such a good memory for stuff on aibu. I name change often.

Its the kind of friend who often falls out with people all the time. Ethically I think she's rotten, but she has helped me out several times and I do have fun with her. Im pretty annoyed that she raised the rent to just milk the maximum out of the tax payer for someone on reception of housing benefit, but most people on MN did support her for doing that. Even praised her for being a good buisness woman...

As I say we have very different lives. I was 98% not going to guarantor for her, I'm so happy to have a 100% yanbu here and for the advice to get out of it without ending up in a situation and I don't feel guilty at all. I think this is my first ever 100% here!

OP posts:
Spartans · 12/09/2015 18:56

Tbh I only remember as I have become recently self employed and the blurred lines between avoidance and evasion scared the shit out of me! Grin I was reading trying to glean understanding. My poor accountant has to explain it all.

Did you also post the one saying she was commuttinf benefit fraud? Because she raised her rents in line with what housing benefit would pay rather than worth. From what I remember, people weren't agreeing she was morally right. But saying it wasn't benefit fraud. It was legal. I also thought most people said it wasn't morally right but it was the system that needed to change.

Maybe I do have a really good memory Grin