to be annoyed about investment properties when so many people have no home?

[horlickslover]

So many established people beginning to "invest" in property again these days. Buying up ideal family homes and first time buyer homes to rent out or use incresingly (depending on area) for airbnb lets. I have to say it really annoys me. I know a few people looking around to buy second or even third homes as an investment. We have a house that is our home I just think it is a bit greedy to go and buy up available housing like that when so many people just can outbid wealthier people looking to turn property into an income. It would be totally fine if their wasn't the housing shortage there is but as it stands I think it is pretty greedy, selfish behaviour.

lovelyfriend yup a third or fourth too. Like I've asked Suzanne, give me an alternative investment strategy and id consider it but at the moment my money will stay in property.

I would! (Puts on fire proof hat and graps the chocolate as really upset about the one house that was for sale being removed today). Sorry ive been renting for 10 years and we tried to buy four properties so far. Each time we have btl coming in and offering higher prices then i see my home (if id been lucky enough to buy it) being put on the rental market. After the last time we moved areas in hope that help. Its heart breaking! Trouble is unless you are in the situation those waiting to buy are in you dont realise how bad it is. Luckily the government and people generally are beginning to realise how selfish it is hence the new btl rules. I just need one house with a garden. Im fed up if window sill gardening and having everything in boxes waiting for that house. We delivered letters to houses in our local area, we pretty much live at the ea and we look at rightmove etc every night. Nothing is for sale! How do people buy?

nutella don't apologise, you make a good and valid point. You not only worked hard (as I'm sure others did too) but you also worked smart . Lots of posters always talk about how they worked hard, but like a PP said, it's not enough to work hard now , you should have started much earlier and worked smarter too.

Yes, there will be the exception who did all that and are still renting but, in general, that's not the case.

"Other people haven't organised their lives to pay unto a pension"

No they're too busy paying into their landlords', trapped in a situation where they can't save for a deposit because a rental costs 50% more than a mortgage on the same property would... so the landlord can make his or her profit from the situation.

We're well off compared to most but I am absolutely appalled by what we could afford to rent (relocated and decided to break the housing chain, worst decision ever!) After I've paid 40% tax, rent, bills, childcare there's not a whole lot left so I can see why the average earner is struggling to pay into a pension when there are so many immediate demands. It's not down to poor life choices, believe me!

Also, when I am in a position to save again, it will go into stocks and shares and childrens trust funds like my existing savings. It's not a case of sour grapes on my part, I just think BTL is immoral. My friends' experiences and my recent experience as a tenant has done nothing to convince me otherwise. I really wish people wouldn't bang on about the important service they're providing as if they do it out the goodness of their hearts!

I should point out that I don't live in London where the property market does seem to be wild. It's not enough to moan that people have bought more than one property, you need to suggest what the alternative is for people. bereal7 thank you. I took my parents' advice and bought property which was a good thing to do in hindsight.

It is about working smart. It's also about saying no to holidays and smart phones and going out when your young. It's about being 18 and saying no, I won't go out, I'll save this £30 and it will go towards a deposit when I'm 30. Taking extra precautions to avoid having children before 30 too. No nice clothes. No going out. Every spare penny saved. There is far too much 'enjoyment' going on-which is fine but know what you are doing. Know that and think about being 50 when you're 20. Chose your priorities. Don't say oh I had fun then had a baby and now I'm stuck. Use 2 lots of contraception to give yourself as much chance of avoiding getting pregnant in your 20s as possible. Save every penny then your life will be better at 45/50.

Also I don't really understand the argument that a mass sell-off of BTL will somehow reduce the stock for those who actually want to rent. There will still be the same number of properties (not enough!) for the same number of people. Presumably the rental properties currently occupied by frustrated renters would become available as they become first time buyers. Yes, there would be some upheaval and reshuffling, but most of my friends seem to get moved on every few years by rent increases or landlords seeking to sell or reoccupy anyway, so it wouldn't be a big change from the norm.

Nomorerenting you're right. It's totally shit at the time but it does work. I think you'll need your tin helmet though. It does help to have people guiding you. My parents are great with their money and have encouraged me to "invest wisely and splurge selectively" and it has paid off.

What it's really about is leveraging up at the right time.

You could call that "smart," but I would call it "lucky." No one can predict the future, and hitting the market at the right time often comes down to happening to be at a stage in life where one is looking to buy when the market happens to be good for buyers.

It's this way with everything in life really. Landlords are an easy target. Perhaps look at the bigger picture of you can't afford to buy a house. Look at wages, job opportunities, the cost of fuel, council taxes etc LL are the least of the problems in this country stopping people getting on in life.

yanbu

If you really want something you will save up for it like everyone else.
Its easier to blame others for the way things are, rather than taking responsibility.
If you can't afford something whose fault is that?
I know I frittered plenty away on travel and partying, but I still saved money at the same time.
I could have saved more or wasted more, worked harder or dossed more, got better jobs or worse ones, got into debt or not, go without stuff for a mortgage or not bother.
I have to live with these choices I made now. I could be better or worse off. No point blaming anyone else.

"It's not enough to moan that people have bought more than one property, you need to suggest what the alternative is for people."

You see what I mean about laughable cobblers LL tell themselves?

No, it's not my responsibility to sort out your investment issues - any more than if you were standing on my foot it would be "my responsibility" to find you somewhere else to stand.

In case you still can't see your own ludicrousness, imagine you're not allowed to refuse a tenant unless you can ensure alternative accommodation... Oops, not so keen?

"It's not enough to moan that people have bought more than one property, you need to change the regulatory framework and economic incentives so it's no longer the most attractive option."

There, fixed that for you.

Pausingflatly your response is laughable. Your quote answers nothing and you come across as bitter. I've made shrewd investment choices and if that upsets people like you then id happily make more

I have a DSS tenant in one of my properties....hmmm so I'm not turning away people from renting my properties....your answer isn't so smart now but keep them coming

And if you were told you're not allowed to not select a tenant unless you can ensure alternative accommodation?

Which is your claim: that no one can criticise BTL without providing you with an alternative?

I don't tell myself any cobblers. I went without everything that most of my friends had in their 20s to ensure I was secure at 50. That's just a fact. I don't pretend I rent out a house for alturistic reasons. I do it to make my future and that of my children (1 of whom is disabled) as financially secure as possible. The rent is double the mortgage. The difference each month goes into the account marked 'university fees'.

I grew up in a HA house. The one thing I was determined to ensure as an adult was that I owned my own home. Whilst we had security of tenure (which I know many in rented accommodation now don't have) and paid a low rent I always knew it wasn't 'our' house. I worried a lot as a child about where my parents would live when they were old, and how I would house them. Ultimately they died whilst I was in my early 20s so it was never an issue, but it didn't stop me wanting to buy my own home.

At 43, I'm lucky in that I have nearly paid off my mortgage. My plan for the next few years is (if my DS goes to uni) to buy a house in his uni area (wherever that may be), which I will rent out to him and friends, and then once he leaves either keep as a BTL whether to a family or students, or if he stays on in that area, allow him to take over the mortgage. I'll do similar for my younger son.

I don't feel there is a more secure investment than property tbh, I am too risk averse to put money in stocks and shares. I won't be looking to make a short term profit, though of course I want to cover my costs, longer term my gain will be in the rise in value of the property over time.

In an ideal world there would be more social housing. But there isn't, and none of the political parties appear to have any sustainable strategy for reversing that situation. BTL may not appeal ethically to all, but I think it's unavoidable as things stand.

If I was told that I couldn't choose my tenants?! why are you making up ludicrous scenarios to support your arguments? I've told you I take DSS tenants and have done for years. Yes I've had problems with them regarding various things but I still CHOOSE to take them. Pausingflatly if you're going to pose an argument please make sure it's based on reality rather than something you've conjured up in your head.

And no, I'm not criticising the current rental economy because of any personal position at all.

The suggestion by a PP that we'd all grab BTL with both hands if only we could, with no regard for whether we're helping or harming others, is demonstrably false for me. (And ironic, given the major life decisions I've been making this month.)

But I don't expect the majority of people to consider others when making their decisions. So I'm in favour of tweaking the framework to incentivise creating good quality, affordable housing under reasonable terms for most people.

I really don't care if that's achieved through ownership or rental. I'm not even against private rental. But private rental AS IT HAS RECENTLY BEEN HAPPENING has been incentivised towards creating a disaster.

The issue is not the rental market,
its the tax distortion of the lack of a land tax in the UK.

Offshore buyers buy up top property in London, make stonking capital gains and pay nothing to the UK apart from £2000 a year in rates.
The equivalent in new York would be around £50,000 a year

The half million empty homes
and the million second homes
are the reason there is a housing shortage.

THOSE should be taxed to the eyeballs
to allow councils to build social housing

oh except the government will not allow councils to deal with their housing shortages

You'll find "the others" that most people consider when making decisions are those closest to them and those to whom they've got a responsibility. Should things go to plan, I can happily say that my DS and any subsequent children will be provided for by me and my DP. I can't see any issue with this and neither can DP. Should I pack it all in and fritter my money away for your idea of the greater good?

Well I think yabu and idealistic. We live in a capitalist society. If people have money to invest, they are perfectly entitled to choose to invest in property. It's their money and they can choose how to spend it.

Nb I don't own any investment property!

haven't Scotland introduced rent controls just recently?