To lie to my six year old about the afterlife?

[BertieBotts]

Tonight DS was in a bit of a strange mood and wouldn't eat his dinner. We thought he was just in a strop as he'd been sent to his room earlier for being rude but then he suddenly burst into tears and came for a hug and said that when he is alone he can't stop thinking about and worrying about death. He was really hysterical and couldn't stop crying and shaking (and farting!) - saying that not knowing what happens afterwards and the fact you can't come back is bothering him the most. DH did reassure him that everybody is afraid of death and that's good, because it's what keeps us alive, but then put his foot in it by saying that he believes there is nothing after death (and that's why he thinks life is so important to spend well.)

I had to go to work (he has the best timing!) but I gave him a long cuddle, reassured him nobody we know is dying any time soon and then left him with DH and he seemed okay when I left, and briefly when I got back he was still awake but it was after bedtime so he gave me a quick kiss and then went back to bed and he was cheerful enough then. But he hadn't eaten any of his dinner.

I can't stop thinking about it now. We are atheists and our policy has always been to explain all kinds of religious and spiritual beliefs as "Some people believe that..." or "Some people think that..." but we have always stated that nobody really knows this stuff. Now I'm thinking maybe we've got this glaringly wrong? Maybe at six you need a nice fluffy story about an endlessly fun place with everyone who ever loved you and a kind person who will hold your hand and look after you when you're there? Now I think back, I have always had a concept of an afterlife and that must have come from something I was told as a child. And while as an adult I find the idea of a god anything but comforting, children find the idea of being alone so frightening and he has already worked out that DH and I will die before he does so maybe that is what he is imagining?

I'm really upset to think that he has been so distressed about it. What do you think? I haven't had a chance to talk to DH yet so will obviously see what he thinks too but I am leaning towards let's just agree on a story and tell him the story for now, and he'll still be able to work out his own beliefs when he's older. It's just after I was marvelling recently at the genius of whoever invented the tooth fairy, too, thinking oh, that could be really scary for children and instead somebody made it into something exciting! Am totally kicking myself now. DH is more matter of fact than I am, and DS is more like me, ie, a total overthinker!

She sounds like an amazing person Welsh. So sorry for your loss.

I think 'you are dead and that's that' is just too harsh for a six year old.

Not if you're an atheist, because that is what you believe to be true.

I can understand that it might seem 'harsh' compared to the promise of the afterlife. The afterlife does - I must admit - sound like a good thing, unfortunately I don't see any evidence of it's existence, and therefore I have not raised my children with the expectation of it.

We often talk about death, what happens after death, if people are scared of death etc. etc. We talk about belief systems and religions. We talk about ways to die and about choosing end of life. We had a big chat about Dignitas and whether that was a good or bad thing. But we don't expect to be reunited after death.

My children don't appear to be frightened of death, but I guess I can't be sure of that.

I was like this aged 5/6. Terrified of death to the point that I cried hysterically every night. My dad also told me that he didn't believe in an afterlife (this was not what initially set me off though) and my mum panicked and would described an afterlife in which marshmallows featured weirdly heavily (we would all sit on giant ones like clouds apparently). I found the afterlife talk a great comfort. It did not affect my critical faculties - I am now an atheist, have a PhD and a successful career etc. and I'm happy and not obsessed with death. actually I don't think I ever believed the afterlife stuff but I desperately wanted to. I also begged to be taken to church but got bored as the Sunday school did not spend enough time discussing death and the afterlife. I imagine it is very hard to deal with and upsetting to see you dc upset, but I think it is a normal phase. Good luck.

Sorry should have said that if I were in this situation I would be happy to suggest the possibility of an afterlife, even though that's not what I believe. I think that the problem lies with children intellectually grasping the concept of death without being emotionally ready for it, and I think it's fine to mislead in order to stop them being overly distressed. I remember the distress in my case was really acute and ongoing (not saying this is how this will be for your ds) and don't see the advantage of a child going through that for the sake of the principle that they should know the truth. They can come to that understanding later when they have the emotional toolkit to deal with it.

I think this is a really tough one. I've told DS there is a heaven despite being atheist as he was so upset about death last year he wasn't sleeping. It helped, and although I feel bad for lying there are many other ways we don't tell the full truth to our children (eg Father Christmas, tooth fairy).

He goes to a CofE school and I'm beginning to introduce the idea that God's existence isn't a given and in time I think this will translate into heaven maybe not existing.

In the end getting to grips with death is tough on kids, whether you choose to sugar coat it or not, so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

My grandson aged 5 asked me where I was before I died!
When I explained that I hadn't died yet he explained that everyone had to be dead before they were alive.

I have always been honest with mine and said that we really cannot know what actually happens to us after death, because the only people who would actually know are in no position to tell us anything.

I am not religious, but I don't personally like the feeling that death is the end and there is only nothingness afterwards. I think many people don't, and small children can find the idea pretty disturbing. If your DS wants to believe in some sort of an afterlife, or reincarnation etc. then let him. In the end it will be his own choice, and I should think that he might go with what he finds comforting.

Some young children just aren't ready to comprehend that when a person dies they cease to be around anymore. My DD2 was like that back in 2002 when my FIL died. She was 3 years old at the time, and just didn't get it. MIL tried the "Grandad's gone to heaven" approach when asked for the umpteenth time where he was, only to be met with the reply "when's he coming back?" from DD2. DH and I had warned MIL that this was likely to happen though, so she was prepared for it.

I've just had this happen to my DS in the past couple of weeks - massive sobbing trauma - and I said yes, there will be an afterlife. In fact I went further and said that by the time he was old, scientists might well have invented a way to make us live forever. He will be able to get to grips with all this in an adult way when he's older but I had it in my power to relieve his distress right now, and no one can prove me wrong, so I did it. I know how you feel OP.

DS1, soon to be 7, asked me recently 'Can I have the house when you die?'. I think I was just after explaining that I had bought out their dad's share of the house, so now it belongs to just me (and the bank)!! So he doesn't seem too bothered by the notion of death.

DS2 5, can't even bear for me talk about me donating blood.

DS is 4 and also curious about death and dying. Unfortunately I hadn't realised he'd already asked MIL (who is lovely but has different ideas in this area) about what happens when you die. When I replied along the lines of the star dust explanation I had an inconsolable child begging me to "come with him to jesus!"

DD has experienced loss, some of which she remembers and some she doesn't. Since her birth almost-5 years ago she's lost 3 of her 4 great grandparents and a great great uncle. Not one death has been explained with the "heaven" theory.

(We don't do Santa or tooth fairy either so conscience is clear.)

It's actually a reason that religion has become so powerful: humans are social creatures and it's just too hard for us to believe that there is nothing after death. It's no coincidence that religions nearly cover this with attractive propositions that avoid "nothingness". But ultimately it's smoke and mirrors.

Ha Marmotte - my 7yo asked me if he could have my wedding ring (poor boy thinks it's worth thousands because it's gold, I think) and when I said 'hang on, what about your brother and sister, what do they get' he said 'we'll have to sit down and decide who gets what'!

I live between religious faith and frequent bouts of agnosticism, but even my faith struggles with the credal 'resurrection of the body and the life everlasting' (and as I try to live it it is not about what happens afterwards but how I live now). Dh hovers between agnosticism and atheism. My dc have had a few encounters with the death of loved ones, including a recent very untimely loss of a family friend, and neither of us have ever felt able to tell them much about an afterlife. We have said that nobody really knows what happens, that the body is buried or burned and becomes part of the earth again, and that while there may and may not be another place where our spirit lives on, we will never really 'die' in the sense of being gone for ever while people still think of and remember us with love. I find they have filled in the blanks with their own ideas. We have also had the questions of 'will you die before me?' and I have always said yes, probably, but hopefully it won't be for a very long time, until you are grown up and possibly have your own children or even grandchildren. The loss of our friend, who leaves children of the same age as ours, means they know it doesn't always happen this way, but as yet they seem very accepting of the facts of death and not personally afraid.

The truth is that absolutely nobody know what happens after death, not holy men, not scientists, not even aethiests. I grew up with an aethiest father and a catholic mother and they both just told me the truth about their beliefs and to be honest I did have a period of existential depression at 7 years old but that is life for everyone it is the fundamental human condition and we all go through it.

One thing my mum told me was that no matter what happens after death we live on in the people we love and in the positive things we do in life no matter how small. I still find that a comfort.

How do you know you would be lying to him?

I've tried to be honest with both mine, who have been variously (and understandably) worried about death at times. Neither are still really at peace with the idea but it doesn't seem to trouble them unduly from day to day.

So I haven't said there is an afterlife, just that some people believe there is, and that some people believe, in Tim Minchin's words, that we just 'stop'. But as people have pointed out, that's a rather bald and bleak way of putting it to a worried child. I think it must be possible to be truthful but also sensitive. An earlier poster, whose names i've forgotten and I can't go back and check now because her post is on the last page, did a great post about the circle of life and I think I will emphasise that in future, because it is what we know to be true and it is also a rather comforting thought, that we are made of the same stuff as everything else.

KingJoffrey I've suffered from those panic attacks too since early childhood (about 6 or 7). They've got much less frequent as I've got older and better able at making myself just not think about it!

We had to deal with this for real when our son was 5. We stuck to 'nobody knows what happens but some people believe in an afterlife... etc' He asked whether we believed in an afterlife so we told him, no. We were having to have some very honest and open conversations (it was his friend who died so there was no way of sanitising it). In this context, it felt absolutely right.

If you tell them about an afterlife when you don't believe in it yourselves then be prepared for more questions - millions of them: where does everyone go? How do they all fit in? Why can't we visit? etc etc etc. This is why I'm glad we didn't go down that path: it would have come out eventually that we didn't believe it, which would have made things even worse.

ChristineDePisan it's not about knowing for certain whether you are lying, but the fact that you personally don't believe in the explanation you're giving. It would be hard for any parent not to feel dishonest, albeit for a worthy reason.

I don't intend to nurture or sustain DS1's belief in Santa or the Tooth Fairy for too long either - just for as long as they serve a purpose.

Try 'Badgers Parting Gifts'. Lovely book all about loss & what we can remember them by. And I think the best plan is just to be open to discussing it with him, as you have been. Talk about what you believe, others believe, and let him form his own view. Because none of us really know for certain.

To those who say that atheists don't know for sure about life after death - yes, absolutely. But on the balance of everything, I think there is probably not an afterlife and this is what I tell my DD. I actually don't think it's very harsh - I personally don't think that the explanations given by lots of religions are very reassuring at all (eg if I am bad will I go to hell).

I would describe myself as a humanist atheist, and have a v positive view of life - this article has lots of atheists talking about their beliefs, including death, in a rather lovely way, for anyone interested. OP, this might help you talk about your beliefs in a positive way, rather than feeling that the atheist approach to life/ death is harsh.

In "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" (a very down to earth parenting book which I frequently fail to implement), there is a lot about acknowledging the child's feelings. So that book would I'm sure advise that you acknowledge that your DS IS frightened, and don't deny that or say "don't be silly, there's nothing to be scared of", and then explore the reasons. Or if it's just an irrational fear, acknowledge that that's ok to be frightened, and talk about death calmly with him.

Working link for post above: Buzzfeed article

My DCs teacher sadly died when they were 4 and 5. We had all sorts of questions as this was the first time anybody they knew had died. The main one was 'but where has she gone?'

I am a hard arsed atheist, so I found it quite difficult. I went through a few idea of afterlife etc and how its nice to think something happens to us but we don't really know. When my 4 year old told me they thought their teacher was now 'sunshine rays', I could only reply, (with tears) that I thought so too.

My friend died when my dd was about 6, and she got very scared about death too. After very careful questioning, it turned out that she was worried about who would look after her if anything happened to us, so we explained that she didn't have to worry, everything would be all right and her aunties and uncles and grandma would look after her.

dodobookends I remember that too: 'When will you die and who will look after me?' Once we'd explained that he would live with his aunt, uncle and cousins he was reassured - and even quite excited!

I haven't RTFT but OP there are books that can help with the atheist perspective (stardust, etc) on our place in the cosmos, and are age appropriate for 3-6 year olds. Try 'Older than the Stars' by Karen Fox (Amazon stocks it). In the same vein, 'Our family tree' is a good introduction to evolution.

Yes I have been careful to not promise that we won't die as you just don't know what could happen, but I have told him it's very very unlikely.

Unfortunately one of his friends has been very ill, we hadn't told him that there was a possibility he could die but I think he had worked it out because he kept asking "But what happens if the medicine doesn't work?" I had known that my answer of "They will just keep trying other kinds of medicine" hadn't really satisfied him, but I didn't want to actually say just in case he said something directly to the friend. Thankfully he is getting better now so hopefully I will be able to give good news to DS but I am waiting to have that confirmed just in case.

The other thing that happened was that our cat was hit by a car a few years ago and he had asked to see the body and I let him, and my 90 year old grandmother died at Christmas. He had met her a couple of times so he was sad about that. And we went to see my 90 year old grandfather recently, who is in good health but perhaps DS is now wondering about how long he has left!

But in any case, he has been absolutely fine today and hasn't talked about it or brought it up at all, been very cheerful and generally fine. I think that I will get hold of a couple of the books mentioned and then can work something a bit more concrete than what we've said into a future conversation. :)