To think we could all have been done twenty minutes earlier

[Todaysrollercoaster]

Have been given a form group for the first time in four years.

Tax payers, be glad. Twenty minutes of my time and your money on

SHOES. This is important because if you don't wear the right ones you won't learn anything.
SKIRTS. Too short and you're asking to be raped.
Top buttons MUST be done up and God forbid if you wear any perfectly normal addition to an outfit of jewellery or nail polish.

Let them fucking wear what they want and let me teach, FFS!

Yes I do feel that way. With football refs I don't get how rugby players can be so respectful of their refs but football players are arses.

As someone with relatives in the police yes it does wind me up hearing about people thinking they are either above the law or think things can be argued about.

In terms of schooling removal of privileges, detentions, and ultimately temporary exclusion is what I understand to be the way schools go these days.

One of my pet hates is people who think life owes them a favour and rules don't apply to them. No wonder if teachers are telling them that it's OK to break rules!

I haven't told anyone it's ok to break rules, hence why my entire twenty minute form time was spent checking trainers and the like; I just think it's stupid!

removal of privileges (they have none) detention (they don't turn up) and exclusion (not my call) makes little difference.

Lunch pack you can ignore a students backchat, sanction them, follow the discipline procedure- but you can't physically silence them. In every school I've taught in, students 'back chat'.

I would find it a bit creepy if they NEVER did it.

Quite often though Lunchpack, there aren't sufficient measures in place. The head just tells the PBI to make sure the kids aren't wearing x or y. Or it involves you making umpteen phone calls to stroppy parents to "explain" the school uniform rules (which you maybe don't believe in yourself but hey ... you are being directed by your headteacher.) Then you get a load of grief off them - in your non-contact time when you were hoping to get some proper work done, which means you then have to take more home ... grrrr! (Sorry)

Or, if there are "measures" available, (such as sending them home to change) these are often seen as too draconian and the hard-done-by parent then goes to the press - along with sad pictures and rubbish press for the school.

Believe me, if I had a pound for every uniform argument I have had since I started teaching in the 80s I would be able to afford a really, really extreme haircut all the time.

LunchpackOfNotreDame

I don't disagree in principle, but I think my parents brought me up with an over-developed sense of fairness and right vs wrong.

The truth is that a good part of the time, like it or not, real life ain't like that at all. Maybe you should try asking your Police relatives how long they would last if they tried 100% zero tolerance to cheek. The truth is, if they reacted to every cheeky thing that gets said, they'd have trouble doing an actual worthwhile job.

It may not be wonderful, but it is a bit more of a reflection of reality. As for demanding obedience without question - that's how the child abusers got away with it for so long because we were taught authority mustn't be questioned.

My sis and I were brought up to obey the rules and be goody-goody - her dead-beat Ex DH refuses to pay any level of maintenance for his DDs - she's been thorough the CSA, Courts, her MP etc etc and how much good do you think it's done? Right - Zero. The fact is "rules" are largely by consent unless you live in a totalitarian regime - and modern schools aren't that any more.

I went to schools which required a uniform. This was in England in the 50's. I preferred it, but I have no interest in clothes.

Sorry for the long post, but this is the dress code for the local secondary school here in Canada.

Riverside Secondary School students are to follow the three basic guidelines: common sense, common courtesy, and common decency. School is reflective of a work environment and students are expected to dress in a responsible and respectful manner.

The Dress Code has been developed by a committee of students, parents, and teachers and is reviewed and modified to meet changing social standards.

<ol><li>While the selection of clothing worn at school is the responsibility of parents and students, the school administration reserves the right of final decision concerning dress and appearance</li></ol>

<ol><li>Proper Riverside P.E. Uniforms must be worn in physical education classes. Specific situations such as labs, workshops, etc. may require additional regulations which students will be informed of by their teachers.</li></ol>

<ol><li>Torn or revealing clothing, sleeveless undershirts, pajama bottoms, muscle shirts, tube tops, halter tops, backless tops, spaghetti straps, racer back tank tops, swim attire, mesh or transparent clothing are not acceptable. All tops must reach pant or skirt line. No bare midriffs. Shorts and skirts should be between knee length and the tips of the fingers when arms are extended. Clothing with offensive, sexist, racist or violent messages will not be permitted. This includes double message T-shirts.</li></ol>

<ol><li>No hats, bandannas or other head coverings are to be worn in the school. Hats are to be left in your locker and worn outside only. Exceptions are made for religious purposes.</li></ol>

<ol><li>Any clothes that are cut or altered in such a manner as to distract from or impede the educational focus of the school are not acceptable.</li></ol>

<ol><li>In-line skates, roller skates and skate boards are not to be used at school. When you arrive at school, store them in your locker.</li></ol>

<ol><li>Jackets and backpacks are not permitted in any classroom. This is a safety matter.</li></ol>

<ol><li>For Health and Safety reasons shoes must be worn</li></ol>

I have no problem with school uniform, but has your head really made you tell teenage girl that if their skirts are too short they are asking to be raped. If so I'm surprised that you would agree to carry out this kind of victim blaming for him.

Sorry but uniform is about showing you can adhere to rules. The asking to remove items is about showing respect to the teacher.

Why is removing a jumper or blazer without permission disrespectful?

That's the ofsted line - girls are putting themselves at risk due to the length of their skirts.

I'm currently watching reruns of Grange Hill.
I'm only upto season 7 and there's already been about 3 storylines of just this issue!!

OP -I assume the uniform rules have been well documented and that these are not new guidelines?

So you are having to waste lesson time because some people chose to ignore the rules and need reminding. These are generally the same parents and children that choose to ignore most rules in life cause it's their human rights innit

I don't disagree with some form of uniform (most post-school workplaces require you to look a level of 'smart'). However, yes schools are bloody awful for not letting the little things go. Hair dye, for example. I don't see anything bad in a bit of tint in the hair, one girl in my school nearly got suspended for having blonde highlights. In her already light brown hair . Our school wouldn't allow girls to wear trousers without it being about -30oC outside, permission was needed to remove jumpers and no jewellery was allowed bar watches (that they took off you if you dared re-ajust the strap, or look at the time 'too often').

On the other hand, I can also see if you give an inch, some kids (and parents) take a bloody mile. Like that girl in the paper today, who's mother allowed her to half shave her hair and add lepord prints to the dye. That's fine as a personal choice, but making a bloody blatent point of "screw the rules, I'm an super special individual" is just as annoying as unbendable school rules.

My daughter just going into sixth form has had a long assembly on uniform, amongst other things. Girls must wear a jacket at all times. She reckons this is because a display of shoulders or too much flesh would be viewed as provocative.
It's shite.

Not being allowed to take off a jumper - what the actual fuckity fuck now? That is the most controlling thing I have ever heard. So kids aren't even allowed to make themselves comfortable in a reasonable manner now? What if the teacher is cold but the kid is too hot - does s/he say no and the kid has to lump it? What a waste of time - kid sits with hand up focussed on being too hot (not the lesson). Teacher thinks kid is intending to comment on the lesson, but no, they're just too hot. FFS.

I don't buy the money argument wrt uniform.
uniforms from cheap stores, badly fitting because bought vastly to big or outgrown.
very visible who has more to spend on clothes imo.

what's wrong with jeans?

If teachers are wasting time pestering children over the conformity of their shoelaces and exact length of their skirt then perhaps OFSTED should be more concerned about the lack of teaching and learning going on.

Neither ofsted not the DofE have any official line on school uniform. In fact both have made statements previously that uniform is a matter for the individual school. Ofsted have cracked down on teachers clothes - and said that they should be professionally dressed, but not kids clothes.

My children's school dress rules:

Students and staff are expected to dress appropriately for a positive working and learning environment; clothing shall be neat and tidy, seasonally suitable and in good taste.
Winter wear shall be warm, dry and comfortable indoor clothing.
Summer wear shall be seasonably cool but non-revealing; e.g. no halter tops, muscle shirts/tank tops, half shirts, cut offs, high cut shorts, extreme mini skirts and low hanging trousers.
Appropriate footwear must be worn at all times.
Inappropriate writing or images on clothing is un-
acceptable
Hats are not to be worn in the school.

I really don't know why more is required, and I really like that the same code is used for staff and students. I hated being told off for looking scruffy in the regulation school uniform (badly made and poorly fitting) by teachers who wore whatever they liked and often looked even more scruffy than me. The last thing it did is to teach me to respect them. I frequently thought that they were a bunch of power mad hypocrites, and I didn't even try and rebel against the uniform, it just wasn't designed for someone tall.

Ofsted stated that the skirts were short enough to be a safeguarding issue so the school claimed

I also like uniforms in general but my dd's school has the line that students 'cannot wear/have anything that makes them interesting to other students' in their new uniform code which makes me think the new headteacher is a bit of an arse and is a rule that is unenforceable.

My DD has to ask if she can remove her blazer. Even in height of summer. The request is normally okayed n most teachers r reasonable but there r times when she has been told no. Why? Reasons like there is only 15 mins left of lesson, head teacher is doing the rounds n -my favourite - it's not that hot!! Er maybe not to u but it clearly is to DD! I have told her just to remove it if she gets too hot n if she gets a detention she won't attend n I will take that up with the relevant teacher/ head of year etc.

That is not because she is a precious little snowflake or we don't respect her teachers, far from it. I work with the school as often as is sensible BUT I object to her sitting sweltering n therefore not really learning fully n u can bet ur bottom dollar the teacher won't have a jacket on (who would? It's roasting out!). The kids pick up on this n it's a lesson in hypocrisy.

I went to a very strict secondary school and while it seemed petty at the time, I'm glad of it now. I place a lot of importance on dressing smartly and making myself presentable as an adult.

At my school, skirts had to be knee length & ties done to a decent length too, not those stupid 1inch long attempts at rebellion. No make up, no jewellery other than simple ear studs, no nail polish, no unnatural hair dyes I.e. pink. Boys haircuts couldn't be too short, but can't remember what the number was. Smart black shoes, no trainers or pumps allowed. You get the picture.

We all looked really smart, I always think it's a shame to see school kids looking scruffy in uniform. Taking pride in your appearance is important.

My nephew once told me he'd never thought there was anything to be interested I about girl's legs until they had an assembly about skirts lengths.

I went to a girl's school where there was no uniform or rules except for a no trouser rule. The pressure to look 'cool' was immense and it was always difficult to find different outfits to wear throughout the week. (It was the 80s - no labels in my day!) I hated it - I'd much rather have uniform.