Extra curricular activity costs for DD 7

[wasonthelist]

Ex and DD moved out 3 and half years ago. I am NRP but do a 32 mile round trip to take DD to breakfast club 2 mornings and pick her up and give her evening meal and put her to be 2 nights (at her Mum's).

I pay (well) in excess of CSA (or whatever they are called this week) rates, monthly by standing order as a private arrangement - I have never been late. I also contribute by salary sacrifice the max I can into childcare vouchers which are used for DD exclusively (neither of us has other children or partners).

Ex has now asked if I will stump up 50% of French, recorder, cookery, swimming, gymnastics, ballet, brownies. DD has been doing French, swimming and ballet for years, but the others are new.

My initial reaction is to say no - but I don't want to start a shitstorm for the sake of a few quid. OTH she seems to be asking for an open ended commitment to 50% of everything on top of the monthly amount.

Ex is not short of money - bought a brand new car this year (I bought the old 10 year old one off her!), but I am not on my uppers either.

Do you mind me asking how much over csa recommend amount you pay? I think if it's a lot over you would be fine to say no.

For me it would depend on how much it cost, how many classes child was being made to do and if not hundreds of pounds how likely it was to create hassle.

I am paying £123 a month over what the CSA calculation is - not counting the childcare vouchers, which is another £124.

I agree too many clubs. But that aside, I would be inclined to ask her for a rough breakdown of existing costs and why the ?700+ isnt' enough to cover that?

I will get jumped on for this, but if an ex is receiving that sort of sum for one school-age child, plus having some extras paid, I think there needs to be some sort of justification for asking for more.

I have kids of that sort of age and there is no way they cost over ?700/month each, all in. And that's assuming that the RP isnt' contributing anything financially to their own child - and I don't see why she wouldn't be able to work if the child is in school (barring disability etc).

Personally I think that's far too many activities for a child that's already in childcare before and after school.

My children are limited to two each. Oldest pays her own way but youngest wanted swimming lessons so had to drop gymnastics, I cant afford more and I think that kids need to appreciate they can't do everything.

juliej75 Although others have claimed it's not relevant (and I see why) - ex DP does work full time and is well paid. I don't resent the maintenance at all and I have never been late or short, nor do I ever moan or even mention it, but it does seem to me that it ought to be enough to cover the costs of DD including these activities.

There is history - I had to refuse ex's original calculation of half of all the combined costs of her and DD (as calc'd by her including £1k rent a month) - as she wanted £1200 a month and I really couldn't afford that.

I think in any negotiation you're going to go in high. So - albeit on limited information! - I'd let that old argument go. From your other posts, it doesn't sound like there's been an issue with constant demands? And she has been paying activities before - my daughter's swimming is £10 a week, £7.50 for ballet... we're not taking peanuts that your XW has been paying.

I think the concern is that you're expected in future to stump up 50% of activities that you haven't budgeted for. Firstly, I think you need to decide if it's fair that existing maintenance is right for covering basics, and not extra activities.

I'm not interested in what CSA would say. That's a bare minimum that doesn't cover the basics, often! But your private agreement. If that is what you both thought was fair BEFORE she was old enough for activities, then I think it's fair for you to pay towards activities.

In which case, I'd say that I agreed in principle, but simply had to budget for activities as you would have done still married. And perhaps suggest an amount paid separately on the same day, to reflect your contribution to extras: school trips and activities. That is your budget. If it us equivalent to funding 50% of 3 activities, then XW can be clear that if she adds a 4th activity, you won't be picking up the cost.

Far too many extra curricular activities for a 7 year old; she will end up doing nothing properly. And if some are school based, should she be paying for them? Fair enough to choose some, but they are luxuries, not essentials.

Are some of those activities done in afterschool time i.e. your DD would be there anyway? If so then the number is fair enough i suppose although it does seem high. Although again if they are in afterschool time and you're already using childcare vouchers, then you're effectively double paying.

If they aren't in afterschool time then I'd question some of them - gymnastics and ballet? My friends DD does gymnastics and it can become very time consuming and expensive if you're good at it, plus all her weekends seem to involve driving to competitions now.

I'd like to understand how much some of these things cost. If you're paying more than CSA plus paying for childcare vouchers then you're already making what seems like a fair contribution.

I'd ask for a breakdown on costs and timings and make a decision based on that.

Thanks all - it's a fair point that we agreed a figure before this came along so I should make some extra contribution, OTOH as I said; in absolute terms, I find it hard to believe that what I'm already paying doesn't cover it. I will ask for more info. Most of this stuff takes place instead of after school, but I can't use my childcare vouchers for it. Maybe I can cut back on the vouchers (I have built up quite a balance) and use the savings there to pay for this stuff.

I wouldn't agree to an open ended 50/50.

Ballet for example gets expensive when shows, costumes, exams and extra classes are added.

Some sound like they may be at school so nominal charge but you need to know.

Brownies should be low cost but again will you be expected to pay for 50% uniform, camps, trips etc.

I have an only DD 9. It is easy when you only have one to fall into trap of too many activities. Others can't because brothers and sisters also need ferrying around.

The other thing is they start to get homework too so an activity every night isn't sensible.

I can see the logic then if the cost of the activities replaces afterschool costs.

I'd try to get a handle on the actual costs and then do what you suggest of offering to replace vouchers with funding for the activities - bearing in mind that you get tax relief on the vouchers and you won't on paid for activities. If your system is like mine it might not be something you can change straight away so work our a timeline for the transition.

That way you aren't paying an open ended amount - you're paying roughly the same as you were before just in a slightly different format.

The activities may not replace after school club sessions though. For example my daughter has a swimming lesson on Friday straight from school. I rarely use the school club session that I've paid for. But it relies on a grace and favour agreement with my boss for an early Friday finish, which is never guaranteed - and I can't afford to lose the Friday place. Some activities are temporary too, or maybe she has 30 mins in school club first. It may not be a permanent direct swap.

I agree that lots of activities could be an only child thing (mine's an only) but I wouldn't use the phrase "falling into a trap". I'm surprised so many are negative about the number. My daughter loves her activities, all requested by her. And we have loads of time still.

Friday swimming straight from school, we're all done by 5pm, and have 4 hours together for other things before bedtime!

Ballet she has loved for 2 years, and they don't do shows and she'll not do an exam until the end of this year. There isn't always endless costs and adding of extra classes and time.

Lots of activities isn't always bad! It's up to OP to decide if it's right for his daughter, separate to the payment issue.

I think you're paying too much, or certainly enough to cover extra curricular stuff.

Forget childcare (as op pays maximum £243 so presumably half) if the mum contributes £700 as well as the op there is £1400 to bring up this little girl.

Even if you never paid for a single thing, e.g. Clothes, uniform, food, meals out etc then I would say that is enough for the mum to use some for housing costs, some for foods & some for school trips, etc.

I know it's not a popular opinion on here but j really think the op is paying enough and I'm wondering whether the mum is starting to make a profit from the op.

Genuinely interested to hear from people who say £1400 a month isn't enough and why /what amount would be

The maintenance is also about maintaining a standard of living for the child relative to the NRP's income though, isn't it? Which is why the CSA calculation is a percentage, not an absolute - because all children would cost the same basic amount to feed and clothe.

So RP might only need enough money to buy value beans and Primark clothes, but if NRP is wealthy, they might want to buy Waitrose best and Hollister. And that's where the RP starts to potentially make a 'profit'.

I don't claim any msintenance at all from my slightly higher earning XH, so no axe to grind on whether it is fair.

But I certainly think it's acceptable that a NRP could be paying more than the actual cost of raising a child.

I'm not sure how to explain this well, and I know it isn't part of the maintenance calculation. But say the NRP has the child less than 50% - which is quite common.
In 'fairness', each parent should do 50% of parenting. So, should the RP be compensated for their time, as if they were actually being paid to provide a nanny service to the child during the time that "ought" to be covered by the NRP?
I'm not sure my own thoughts on that. I think - of course I'm not going to be paid for looking after my own child! But if I try to think only about what is fair, taking emotions out - why should a NRP get free childcare if they have the child less than 50%?

Sorry for tangent OP - just thinking aloud!

I have to say I struggle with the 'maintaining the same standard of living in both homes' thing. And the view that the RPs salary etc are irrelevant. If my DPs salary went up hugely / he won the lottery etc, he would be expected (and of course would) increase maintenance to SSs mum. However if SS's mum's financial situation improved massively in the same way, as she is the RP there would be absolutely no expectation on her to share that with DP, so SS's living situation when with us would be considerably worse.

Sorry OP another tangent prompted by something said above! But personally I do think your ex's financial circumstances are relevant - if your DD couldn't do these activities without some additional financial contribution from you, fair enough, but to me unless there is some other circumstance we're not aware of, it sounds like you are paying enough for her DM to choose SOME activities for her (like others I am of the view that the list you've given is quite long! ).

I was a single parent. Both my children did a lot of activities because I considered them important and they enjoyed them. I didn't get extra from ex for this, but it did mean I was skint at the start of term (when all the fees were due). Priorities for me were ballet, instrumental tuition and swimming. Maybe you could take over paying for one of the more expensive ones, which would ease the cash flow issues at start of term e.g. ballet? I don't think you should have to pay a blanket 'half of everything' regardless, but maybe an agreement to pay half of one - off big costs like school trips in future? If you were still together you wouldn't necessarily be paying unlimited lessons and clubs, there would be discussions about affordability.

Cabrinha

I would do 50% of childcare if allowed by ex - but she moved 35 min drive away and refuses to consider more contact for me. I suspect I am paying more than 50% but actually have no way of knowing - DP does a fine job of feeding clothing DD, but neither DD nor ex are dripping with diamonds and designer clothes (thankfully). They are living in a bigger house than me with a brand new car though - not a complaint, just an observation.

So basically what your ex is saying is that your child costs ??824 X 2/month before the cost of extra curricular activities. That's one hell of an expensive 7yr old.

I also think it's too many paid activities. She needs downtime and free play time.