Smart metres are a con

[Kimbomc]

Keep hearing adverts about companies providing them for "free". They are not being provided for free, offgem has given them permission to put up bills to cover the costs of these. They are not that useful, I have an owl device that took seconds to install and gives much of the same information for 20 pounds. Smarts cost hundreds to install (I heard 200 on radio 4) and would allow people to cut off the supply remotely or limit it. Plus g4 have been given the contract to mine all the data people with smarts will supply to them.

Although it will be ridiculously expensive to do so as it is the invention of a major new technology, it is a good idea to drag us into the 21st century
Sadly that's nonsense. They aren't developing new technology at all. They're using outdated technology which has all sorts of problems and which has been widely denounced by the IT industry. Technology has moved on since the project was conceived but they are resolutely clinging to plan A.

It's been possible for us to know how much energy we're using for years. Most devices are labelled, you have a rough idea how many gadgets you have hooked up, there have been special devices you can simply plug in for years. None of that answers the control issues.

Yes I would like to see energy production back in public hands.

The only new technology is the stuff to mine peoples usage. If this is hacked they will know what we do in our homes and when and when we are out.

I think Germany said no to them as they didn't give much benefit for the huge cost.

smartgridawareness.org/2015/05/19/utilities-excited-about-mining-smart-meter-data/

They are absolutely not sticking to plan A. Plans A and B (possibly more but I can remember at least two instances) have publicly been dismissed by the companies as unworkable. Undoubtedly by the time they are released technology will have overtaken the design. Unfortunately the way the government has thrown the responsibility over the fence to the suppliers means the meters are being designed by a committee of many. All suppliers' designs will have to be interchangeable. Otherwise, imagine wanting to change suppliers and having to get two sets of suppliers out to deinstall and install meters. I don't know to what extent the suppliers may have outsourced to a tech development firm - that may have been a good option.

I'm sure there are current ways to identify whether someone is at home or not. For me, the hacking risk depends whether the meter info is linked up to bank accounts etc but then I'm not sure that that risk differs to current risks of using other online payment sources.

Interesting link kim, but if I was a utility I too would be interested in being able to get better data about energy usage. They're not going to be able to tell how many times you switch on the tv, what you have for dinner, or anything like that; just what are the peak and non-peak times for usage (to much greater detail and more immediately than they can currently) plus patterns of usage, how to manage capacity better etc. National grid can tell you about usage for the country as a whole on an immediate basis but not on a supplier by supplier basis for well over a year later.

Ego has it spot on - that's much more interesting. I suppose the difference is you can choose whether or not to have a club card. I think smart meters will be mandatory (but I'm not positive on that).

That's why I don't so loyalty cards. Very different though what you buy from one shop, to the 24\7 monitoring of your home. Lots lots more data to mine.

I'm worried, I will refuse one in current home but when I move to the next will probably be unable to get them to replace it.

I'm more worried about the fact it means your power can be turned off remotely (its not like energy companies never make mistakes!)

Also the potential for charging more for peak times.meaning bills will go up even more.

Electricity supply should be nationalised.

No I don't use loyalty cards either. I was annoyed in a Sainsbury's branch recently which had an advert for 'nectar' reward scheme saying that it's 'something for nothing'. No it's not, of course it's not, you're selling them all sorts of info for some trinkets of far less value, that's how any transaction with a private company works... come to think of it I was going to see if there was still an advertising standards agency to complain to, or has that gone bye-byes too.

trouble is, with 70% of the population now brick-phone owners, and with the things being so power hungry, all those 'not very much' add up to a lot.

server farms are of course the worst culprit. Perhaps we should close down the internet?

But I can avoid those if I want to. As one of the army of private tenants I have absolutely sod all choice about what my landlord chooses to stick in my home (or not, e.g. insulation). Even private homeowners may eventually have little choice over this. That's a substantial difference.

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_EDPS-12-10_en.htm?locale=en
"While the Europe-wide rollout of smart metering systems may bring significant benefits, it will also enable massive collection of personal data which can track what members of a household do within the privacy of their own homes, whether they are away on holiday or at work, if someone uses a specific medical device or a baby-monitor, how they like to spend their free time and so on. These patterns can be useful for analysing our energy use for energy conservation but together with data from other sources, the potential for extensive data mining is very significant. Patterns and profiles can be used for many other purposes, including marketing, advertising and price discrimination by third parties."

Is that a start? Plus, apart from who this info is being sold directly to, who is going to be intercepting it illegally?

I choose to keep my information private. I value my privacy and that should be enough. As for supermarkets using it to make sure they stock the right products, you're clearly unaware of how they're actually funded. An awful lot of their profits come from selling shelf-space to food companies, it has absolutely no relation to what people want to buy. Seems to be the norm for retail ime. Private companies do not respond to markets - they create markets. Part of the problem with modern capitalism.

Really. It is possible to be environmentally friendly and anti-privacy-invasion at the same time you know. I manage that quite well.

I don't see that giving private companies all this information to sell will automatically make individuals more willing to consider public good. Quite the opposite in fact, when they see that it results in yet more resources being diverted to private pockets.

One of the best things you can do to encourage imo that is bring communal public resources back under communal public control again and discourage the emphasis on privatization and individualisation that the free-for-all market brings.

Exactly lightening I don't want them to know what time I get up and make my first cup of tea or how long I shower for or how many laundry loads I do a week. God knows what they would do with that.

Most people are happy to give up their privacy.

I think when smarts first came out they sold them to people by offering free energy on a Sunday for a limited ime and people were falling over themselves to sign up. Nothing is free without a catch.

I have private incripted email, I browse the web using tor and I name change every week or so. So no I don't leave that much of a trace.