to think that BTL landlords are morally dubious...but Air BnB landlords are worse

[vulgarbunting]

I live in an apartment block in central London. There must be around 200 apartments, of which I would estimate based on who I see coming in and out of the building, that around 50% of those are rented out to tourists on Air BnB.

So that is 100 apartments that would otherwise be either rented or bought by London residents, ultimately driving up rent prices in the building. And that is 100 fewer families per week using the local B and B's/hotels so screwing local business and jobs over.

Air BnB landlords don't have to follow the same legislation (i.e. fire safety rules) that actual BnB's/hotels have to, so those businesses can't afford to compete in the market.

In addition, it is all arranged online, so the Air BnB landlords have no idea who they are renting to. In the case of where I live, they leave their keys with the concierge so may never even meet the people that they are renting to. A few months back there was a party thrown in my building by some Air BnB tenants which was so large the police couldn't control it.

I really feel that if BTL is considered dodgy territory morally, then those landlords making a profit out of Air BnB are far far worse.

And when I was looking for a room in London, there were lots of flats to let on Air BnB. There are symbols to tell you if they have basic things like smoke alarms, many did not even meet that basic safety standard.

Yes Red I agree that the government need to act. My point is that the original ethos of AirB&B (a space to crash for a few nights) has evolved into big business and if AirBnB won't tackle it (why would they? They're making a killing!) then someone needs to intervene for the sake of people managing legitimate, professional lets, with all the associated costs.

I suspect it will take someone being killed by a fire in a flat with no smoke alarm, before anything changes.

I agree that contacting landlords/managing agents is likely to cause problems for air bnb landlords. It is definitely against the freehold agreement in my building. Also, wrt extremely large parties etc - I get the feeling that air bnb itself is very keen to avoid bad publicity, so complaining to the company itself (eg in a tweet) could lead to compensation. I know that doesn't really solve the problem though.

Have namechanged. I run a small 4 star B&B and we have been pretty adversely affected since Air BnB became so popular. The perception is that Air BnB is cheaper than a hotel/B&B, but where I am, most AirBnB rooms are small with no private facilities and either no breakfast or tea and toast for between £45 and £60 per room. We charge £55 for a double or twin ensuite room with full cooked breakfast, hospitality tray, TV, free wifi, guest lounge etc.

We have to abide by environmental health and safety regulations, pay tax on income, be properly insured.

AirBnB also market themselves as being lentil wevery, spread the love, come and crash on our sofa kinda people, all while charging their clients averagely 15% commission - commissions in the hospitality industry have for years been 10% and it's only since the rise of the online booking engines that commissions have become so ridiculously high. Odd, as the online portals I should imagine actually do less with fewer staff than the traditional travel agency who charged 10% used to.

Problems with people renting multiple rooms long term on AirBnB are causing previously documented issues in amny big cities now, including most European capitals, New York, Sydney etc.

Sorry for rant - I can see we will probably have to list with AirBnB ourselves at some point - the 15% commission will probably mean our prices will have to rise.

How annoying, Gladys. In my experience there are many wonderfully well run, good value small b&bs out there and it would be a shame if the sector was damaged by this.

I think you are trying to follow the example of NYC OP and get airbnb banned?

Im not interested in the OP's thoughts on the matter but this thread has brought up some rather interesting points that have made me reconsider my plans to use AirB&B next year when inter-railing round Europe with my friend. We were going to do apartments and cook an evening meal etc. But what Gladys has said has me seriously reconsidering things.

I live in a country where AirB&B is now banned.

My concern with things like Air b&b is that the security of the block is compromised. You don't know who has keys or access. I've previously had to report air bnb flats to councils (I'm a managing agent) to get them to stop these short term lets because not only could these visitors have cut multiple keys but it also meant that god knows how many people knew the security codes to get in to the development. Yes, you can change codes regularly, but why should you do it more often than you would usually- it becomes a ball-ache for those living there permanently always having to remember a new code. Not to mention that suitcases bang walls, skirting boards etc damaging it and this is much more likely to happen more frequently with rents on a week on week basis.

I too have found that Air BnB is not cheaper than decent B&Bs. People are way overcharging for what is a spare bedroom.

I can't say that what mynameisgladys reports has been my experience at all.

I've stayed in several different places, usually paying around £30 a night, and one self contained cottage sleeping 4 adjacent to the owners house which was £130 for the weekend so far cheaper than B&B/traditional s/c. Not had a single bad experience. It's not B&B service but I'm not paying B&B prices.

I'm both a BTL landlord (kind of) and an airbnb host. OP, if we met, you would probably spit in my eye.
I live in a small coastal village, there is one hotel (£160 p/n), one B&B (£70 p/n) and us, renting a room in a house (£40p/n). I don't think we are stealing custom from other local places, we are catering to budget travellers who wouldn't stop here otherwise. We give a simple breakfast, and happily engage with people who stay here, chatting and giving advise on sightseeing. But yeah, we are scumbags .

Any business that manages to bypass safety regulations is going to cause problems. Some people will voluntarily have good standards due to decency, some won't.

Lots of new flats in the (touristy) city I live in now have specific clauses that they can't be used as holiday lets/air bnb properties.Some cities have bans and/or special regulations for it, so that kind of thing will spread.

As we have some dietary needs, we've usually always rented apartments (via agencies, not airbnb) for holidays for the last few years. There was a problem with our flat this summer though, so we went to a hotel that offered suites with small kitchenettes at short notice. Best holiday ever- daily cleaning, change of towels and sheets etc, laundry service, 24 hr reception (came in handy when we needed non-emergency medical assistance at short notice) but ability to whip up a simple meal if we fancied a night in. Best of both worlds, it really was. and we felt better that we were supporting more jobs in the local economy.

I really hope that kind of thing takes off. Plus, we've stayed in a few hotels for work recently and I've noticed a lot are really upping their game in terms of service/catering for dietary needs, because they need to know, so I think the market will shift a bit soon.

And OP is only guessing anyway.

Looking out of a window and judging the people coming in and out of a large complex and assuming so much!

Do a search for your building on air Bnb. That can show whether any flats are registered. Previous guests may well have also left feedback so you can see how often it has been let out. You can send screenshots to the managing agent and local council depending how far you want to take it.

There was s case in the paper here recently where someone was letting out their student accommodation on air Bnb in breach of planning, lease etc. the tenant was evicted and narrowly avoided being kicked out of the university completely.

FuckitFay - If that is true, why are there properties for rent in Air BnB that don't even have a smoke alarm? That is a vey basic health and safety regulation.

I should imagine colley because no one actually checks.

Lynda - The Air BnB site actually has a symbol to show whether properties have a smoke alarm. Plenty of landlords advertising there are saying they haven't.
I suspect the statement quoted is just to cover themselves legally. If Air BnB did actually want to make sure properties meet basic health and safety standards, there would be a list of things they insisted landlords provided, and a process whereby people could complain if they didn't have them
It is shocking that people are renting places that don't meet such very basic standards. It is only a matter of time before someone dies or has a serious accident as a direct result of poor health and safety standards.