School parking.....

[Shirleycantbe]

My childrens' school is in a resident parking area in London - at pick up time the bays are Residents only. It's therefore a nightmare for any one to park and people ignore the residents only rule - thus putting themselves at risk of being ticketed by the traffic wardens that roam the streets at that time. The residents also get extremely irate (understandably) that the street is difficult for them to park in between 3pm and 4pm.

Now my question. As I live in the same borough, I have Visitor parking permits I can use that allow me, legally, to park in the street at any time. I have been doing this once a week maximum (my children finish school after restrictions have ended at other times).

The school ask parents not to park in these bays because it annoys the residents. AIBU to park there anyway since I am legally entitled to?

I did say that Andrew. As it happens, my road is one that would be closed, I could work round it, no less convenient than not being able to get off my drive for 20 mins twice a day!

They've put restrictions outside our school for drop off and pick up times and that has made it safer coming in and out.

It has pushed all the traffic round the corner though!

This is an odd one for me.

Part of me thinks, if you buy a house near a school expect it to be busy. But there is a difference between busy and people doing the school run and not giving a shit.

Personally I can get parked near school, but it makes its difficult for residents so I park further away and walk. If it's raining, I take a coat.

The drop and run parents are more of a problem at our school because of the dangerous manner they do it.

Spartans - there will be people living in the vicinity of schools who haven't move there but who have lived there for years, well before the school run became 'a thing'. It wasn't that long ago that we all walked to school, and roads around schools weren't clogged with parents who cba to park and walk, or simply walk.

And there will be people living on busy A roads which were far quieter before people couldn't be arsed to get by on one car per family, or walk, or use the bus or train more. We all contribute to that traffic.

I bet no one who gets a bee in their bonnet about the school run would be prepared to ditch their car and take up public transport instead.

I'm embarrassed when my neighbours behave like this. It's simple selfish nimbyism. "You can help pay to maintain my road through general taxation but woe betide if you want to park there."

Also, schools have expanded hugely in recent years. When we moved in our school was one form entry with the vast majority walking. Now it's 3 form entry plus nursery. Current pupil numbers 700ish v 200 then

sir our school has been there a hundred years and it was joyous for parking problems when I was at school 25 years ago.

Most, not all, will have moved there in that time.

As I said 'if you buy a house near a school', not referencing people who moved in 40 years ago. I am talking about those that have moved in more recently.

I didn't walk to school, nor did any of my friends. There isn't one in walking distance of where I lived as a child or where I live now.

Maybe where you live most people used to walk to school but not here

I would love it if I didn't have to drive to school. But 4 buses (2 there and. 2 back) taking 1 and half hours twice a day would mean I couldn't work.

So I drive and park away from the packed roads around the school.

Your Visitors parking is for your visitors and not you.

Park a little further away and walk.

The parking problems outside schools are not confined to one area though. It's a problem for people across the UK and beyond because parents have decided that they must park right outside the school and to hell with anyone who happens to live in the vicinity. This might have been a problem for residents where you lived 25 years ago, but it's a problem which has now become widespread - and hardly the fault of the people who have lived there for many years (or indeed who have moved there). No-one should have to put up with the sort of behaviour that is commonplace outside schools - the fault lies 100% with the idiots that park inconsiderately, as opposed to parking and walking, not those who have the temerity to buy a house near a school.

Our primary school, for example, has the following:

1. A free, drop in breakfast club from 8am.
2. A large, free car park 5 minutes walk (max) from the school through quiet surburban streets and or tramaced footpaths.
3. A turning circle for parents to drop and go.
4. Wraparound care for the younger pupils.
5. A school bus which covers the surrounding area morning and night.
6. An afterschool club which operates a 5 minute walk away.
7. The furthest pupils live a 40 minute walk away through safe surburban streets.
8. Playground supervisors from 8.30am

You would think with all that we wouldn't have a parking problem, wouldn't you? But no - as with every school, there are parents who insist on parking right outside the school and walking their children into the playground. On a Friday we finish at 12.25. Parents queue in their cars from around 10 to 12. It is utter madness.

The school ask parents not to park in these bays because it annoys the residents

I think YABU, because you continue to park there when the school have asked you (as a parent) not too. Whether you are legally allowed to doesn't really come into it.

Our primary school is at the end of a cul de sac. It's clogged up each morning with parents legally parking. But it must be a nightmare for residents who are trying to get in and out the close at school run time.

Also, it's extremely dangerous with cars reversing, turning and parking all at the same time as 200 small children are arriving. There have been some very near misses.

The school have repeatedly requested that parents do not come down the cul de sac in cars, but instead park in a large free car park and walk the extra one minute to school.

While they have no legal right to ask this, it seems a fair request, for the safety of the children, and the convenience of the local residents. But still there are a significant number of parents who continue to ignore this request, for reasons best known only to themselves. They seem to only think about themselves, and how an extra minutes walk would inconvenience them. Just because they can legally park there doesn't mean that they should. It's dangerous and selfish.

My DS's school from five to eight was down a cul-de-sac, one car wide, nowhere to turn at the gates, and parents were begged not to drive down it but of course there were some who thought that that did not mean them. On-street parking in the area was not brilliant either; but this was a part of London with excellent public transport links, the more considerate parents formed syndicates of neighbours who took it in turn to take more than one child, everyone managed somehow. Except a few selfish gits who simply had to drop Little Snowflake right at the gates and then reverse down a narrow cul-de-sac full of pedestrians of all ages and then into a busy main road.

You are parking legally so yanbu.

What is very annoying (and dangerous!) Is when school run parents park illegally, including (but not limited to): parking on double yellow lines, obstructing the street and parking on the pavement.

Abusing a visitors permit is NOT parking legally. When did people become so bloody lazy that they can't walk for 10 mins to school?

John unless she is violating the terms of the permit she is not parking illegally.

I think YABU. Sorry - the restriction presumably isn't supposed to just stop those outside the borough from parking there, but to ensure that residents are able to park.

If you live sufficiently far away to need to drive then I'd say it's a moot point that you have a permit.

We don't that she isn't violating the terms - so you can't claim that she is parking legally.

Actually JohnCusacksWife - While I take the point that it might not be following the spirit of the law - visitors permits can be used anywhere within the borough and it IS legal to use them to park.

Does it say that they can be used by anyone anywhere, irrespective of whether they are actually visiting someone?

But the question asked was AIBU, not am I acting legally. I think OP is likely to be acting perfectly legally, but a bit unreasonably.

There is absolutely nothing in any of the written information provided by the council online or with the permits that says where you can/cant use them. I've also now submitted, by emailm a specific enquiry to the council as to whether I am allowed to use them in this way - I'll let you know what they say.

But I take Fluffy's point - legality wasn't my question. And clearly some people do think I am behaving unreasonably or being a "twat".

I'm genuinely interested though - am I still a twat if I park outside school in the morning or after 4.30 when there are no residents parking restrictions? How far away do I need to park to lose my twat status? 10 mins? 5,6,7,8,9? Is there a non-twat distance threshold? Would I still be a twat if I legally parked as near as legally possible to the train station for my commute to work rather than a 10-minute walk away? Am I a twat if I legally park in a nearby residential road to visit a shop that is a 45min drive away from my house? Should I have parked 10 minutes away to avoid inconveniencing people who live near the shops?

I don't wish to be a twatish, inconsiderate parker but I wonder if it's really that clear cut or if perhaps some people have decided that school run mums are just a nightmare, selfish menace.

fluffy And my interpretation is that it is reasonable as long as it is legal, yours may be different.

hibble just think it goes against the spirit of the thing, even if legal. Before we know it everyone is getting a visitors permit and the loophole is closed to the detriment of legitimate visitors.

Hold on. Aren't the visitors' permits monstrously expensive? And zoned? I know that's how it works in Wandsworth. So if you live in the right zone presumably you've already got an actual permit? Have confused myself now...

*I'm genuinely interested though - am I still a twat if I park outside school in the morning or after 4.30 when there are no residents parking restrictions? How far away do I need to park to lose my twat status? 10 mins? 5,6,7,8,9? Is there a non-twat distance threshold? Would I still be a twat if I legally parked as near as legally possible to the train station for my commute to work rather than a 10-minute walk away? Am I a twat if I legally park in a nearby residential road to visit a shop that is a 45min drive away from my house? Should I have parked 10 minutes away to avoid inconveniencing people who live near the shops?

I don't wish to be a twatish, inconsiderate parker but I wonder if it's really that clear cut or if perhaps some people have decided that school run mums are just a nightmare, selfish menace.

You've made some good points, and I think the main problem with a school run is that so many cars arrive at the same time, which is bound to cause problems. This wouldn't generally be the case with a shop, whose customers would be staggered during the day.

I think YABU because the school has asked parents not to park there, so you do know that it is causing problems, but you have chosen to ignore this for your own convenience.