To ask for your experience as a buy-to-let landlord?

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I'm thinking of buying a house or two and renting them out to hopefully fund my retirement in 15 years or so.

Would appreciate any advice or sharing of experience - good and bad!

Ceyes are you really this blinkered you cant view things from the other side.
Sometimes landlords have to or want to sell. Sometimes they hold and sacrifice to try and give tenants a secure home. Some are themselves private tenants elsewhere where they cant afford to buy. There are lots of diff btl landlords out there.

Oh and yes I've been made homeless twice by a private landlord and taken to court for money owed by everyone else in a house share by a real bitch of a ll.That's life, I've dealt with it.

I have some properties which are let to university students. The university accommodation service manages the properties for me, although naturally they charge for doing it. Students are much less likely to mess around with paying the rent when the cheque is addressed to their own university. I haven't had any problems.

Evening all
a handy link to our talk guidelines
Thanks ever so

Because this country has no real industry any more (manufacturing, mines, aerospace. railway engineering etc) the housing 'bubble' is virtually all there is to keep the money bouyant and circulating so I can't see the Govt. doing anything too disruptive to the housing market in the longterm.

Just seen this - this is VERY wrong. House prices rising is INFLATION pure and simple. Nothing is being produced, grown developed or adding to GDP in anyway (other than estate agents fees perhaps). Far from stimulating the economy, money pouring into housing takes away investment from real technological and other developments which can help the economy grow over the longer term.

Furthermore, with some many of the "Baby boomer" generation over invested in property, undiversified there is a real risk that they all sell at once, collapse the market and then expect the state to keep them in their pension.

From where I sit, the Government is doing everything it can to dissuade investors from BTL if not cool down the market (CGT for overseas investors (aka offshore companies), removal of tax relief for interest and so forth)

Maursh I never said the above was good, just that that is the way it has become. The Govt. have not made it easy to invest in industry in this country and anyone seeking this must look to peer to peer lenders such at Funding Circle brilliant idea. Even with these though you so not have the control over your investment you have with BTL.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs, without BTL over 50% of the renters in this country would be living under a bridge or sofa surfing. My LL has been candid with me about her income from my home and is seeing it as a longterm investment that pays her well over what she can get elsewhere. She looks after me, I pay the rent.
I actually prefer to rent as it gives me flexibility. It's wrong for some posters on here to imagine that a lot of renters are frustrated buyers. I am not and many people I know are not. My neighbour owns her home and rents it out and spends the rent on the house she lives in now as she could not sell so is an accidental LL. She makes a tiny profit but she is happier here than at her previous address. It is not a black and white issue.
Until this country starts making more actual stuff instead of us all taking in each others washing, the situation will remain the same. The Govt. has a vested interest in keeping the situation at least the same to a degree it seems. Changing the rules re tax, without enforcing the already current laws surrounding crummy LLs treating tenants badly is weak governance but a trait of all recent governments not just this one.

As for a dump of property to the market. It will interesting to see if it happens or if bigger LLs sell a few to pay off the mortgages on the rest so they own everything outright. They will lose a small amount only that way (you tend to earn less off a fully owned property than you do with a part owned/part mortgaged) but will gain as they have less maintenance costs over the long term.

For some years we have a had a period of stupidly low interest rates. One day the base interest rates will rise to a more sensible level of about 5%. In the base rate has been as high as 15%.

There will be a huge buy to let crash and I hope that the govemnent steps in to protect tenants whose landlords have failed to keep up with the mortgage and whose buiy to let got reprocessed.

Quite rightly the govenment is phasing out tax relief for buy to let mortgages. You don't get tax relief on a loan to buy shares so why should should get tax relief on a buy to let mortgage? I am surprised that tax relief on buy to let mortages have not been totally scrapped.

I own two buy to let flats. The advice I would be would be to do your calculations on rental yields and costs carefully. Their are costs like void periods, service charges, ground rent, agency fees, maintaince, gas safety. You also have to be clear on what your legal obligations are. Set aside a certain budget each year to spend on upkeep of the property. If you spend £400 per year on upkeep of a flat it will stop it turning into a dump. A tenant is more likely to stay if you have made small non essential improvements each year which they have some say.

Weekend bump

We are in the fairly unenviable position of having to let out a house and acting as landlords, without even getting any of the benefit in rent!

(Short story is that my MIL has dementia, we recently moved her to an assisted living rental closer to us, and as of two months ago rented out her old house which she owned outright in order to meet the fees for the new place - all proceeds go to her, but we manage the property on her behalf.)

It's been a hassle, and I wish we'd just sold it! (Which was what I wanted to do all along, but OH in favour of renting for the foreseeable.)

We had spent about £6k (of her savings) to renovate the place (sorely in need - had been much neglected, as we attempted to "firefight" the more pressing manifestations of her illness), but still on renting it out had a series of complaints that x y z wasn't working as it should, and had to fork out yet more of our own money to repair... Relations with the tenant somewhat soured as a result, which was the last thing we ever wanted (quite keen to be "good" landlords, but inexperience here caught us out).

My advice is to check EVERYTHING before you rent it out - plumbing / heating in all rooms, washing machine, back door locks not jarring, windows open and close properly etc. I wish wholeheartedly we had made sure to check absolutely everything in minute detail earlier, but as MIL hadn't ever complained and workmen hadn't pointed anything out, we didn't realise there were still problems on renting it out - so we now look a bit negligent towards tenant (who isn't the easiest of people - but I see his point).

Things are now all sorted, but it has put me off renting for life - too much stress involved, especially as I since watched the whole Channel 5 series of 'Nightmare Tenants, Slum Landlords' and now dread the day someone defaults on the rent or trashes the place in our absence!

well, now you know that bile-spewing mumsnet is not the place to ask about BTL. Many here have playground mentalities.

I refer you to landlordzone, the landlord associations, a reputable agent (which will take a little finding) and some good books.

you can and should insure against non-payers, eviction costs and malicious damage as well as landlord building and contents insurance. You have other legal obligations.

BTL with a mortgage is probably finished in a few years. Unless you are a beds-in-sheds landlord (who DO deserve the bile but many on here are too stupid to realise there is any other kind) you are looking at a return of 3-4% gross, to reduce if you have a mortgage.

Looks like MN have dealt with the really vicious one on this thread, but this still is not the best place to discuss BTL.

for retirement funding, a pension scheme really is a better bet.

good luck. You'll need it.

When being a landlord goes wrong, it can go hideously wrong. A good friend's company went bust and he was forced to take a job elsewhere. He was only on an average wage, so rented out his property to a young couple with 2 small kids. He said they seemed very average, very nice and had good references. Some months down the line, they started pissing about with rent. The eviction process was really hard on my friend. He reflects back, not on the financial cost, but the emotional cost. He didn't like evicting the family, it was a shitty situation.

I work on the basis of getting 10 months rent a year for rental house; the other two months pay for insurance and repairs. I have a long term tenant so not worried about voids.

Basically that makes me 4.5% on my investment, less a little bit of tax. So not loads of money, but a fairly solid investment, (self employed so not much pension).

Arandelle - exactly this is why I would never BTL, unless I could safely afford two mortgages each month!

The only reason I'm sort of comfortable with our current set up is that the property is owned outright.

Yes tenants not paying rent is a pain in the ass. I see a lot on MN about tenants in UK needing better protection but IME LLs need more protection from shit tenants, including the ability to get them out of your property much sooner when they default on rent and then duck and dive, rather than engaging with LL.

There are some agencies who will guarantee your rent each month, whether your property is full or not.
You probably get less rent each month than you otherwise would but you are paying for the piece of mind. It means if the tenants aren't paying you don't need to worryabout it, the agency will pursue through the courts etc. If necessary.

specialsubject I thought you would pop up on this thread, surprised you haven't before.

Look, you seem to be an intelligent person and you are probably a good landlord. I have seen you give very good and completely unbiased advice to tenants in difficulty on other threads, and that is great, obviously. You also seem to be familiar with the relevant legislation which sadly cannot be said for many landlords. So your experience and advice is a great resource on here.

BUT you do seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about the way landlords are perceived on MN. I don't think it's true at all to characterise Mumsnet as a place where 'bile is spewed' routinely towards landlords. There are many landlords posting on here as well, and many tenants who don't have a problem. I'd say it's about 50/50 pro landlord and pro tenant, with most posters somewhere in the middle, or just not caring either way.

I don't know what the poster whose messages were deleted was saying, as I didn't get to read them before they were gone. However the point of view that owning several properties whilst there is such a housing shortage in the country is not really morally justifiable is certainly a valid opinion, even though you clearly don't agree. It doesn't give you the right to call other posters 'stupid' and childish, because you don't agree with them.

Can someone explain to me why a shortage of houses has anything to do eith landlords? Surely if those renting wanted to/could afford to they would buy a house? There's no shortage of houses for sale all over the country. If there is a shortage of social housing that has nothing to do with landlords surely? Sees a strange stance to me.

m1nniedriver if you look back on the thread you will see there is one poster describing how she is hoping to buy, but every time she does it is snatched away from her by a landlord. I think there are some landlords, the ones who own multiple properties, who have special deals with estate agents so they are told first about the cheaper properties coming onto the market. So first-time buyers are at an unfair disadvantage. There is one town (think it is Ashford in Kent) where apparently virtually all the rental properties available are owned by one couple (think they are called the Wilsons). They snap up all the cheaper housing in the town, so first time buyers don't stand a chance. And if you can't get onto 'the ladder' then how are you going to be able to afford something bigger later on?

Yes, of course there will always be a need for rented accommodation, for those on very low incomers, people relocating, students etc. But now many of those renting are frustated from buying .In the recent past, people with reasonable jobs could expect to buy somewhere in their twenties. Now this is becoming rarer and rarer, and it's obviously not good for society. People don't have stable homes, having to move on at a landlord's whim (when he/she wants to sell, etc). Often landlords specify 'no children' - how can tenants have a normal family life? And what happens when all these tenants hit retirement age, who is going to pay the rent for them, especially if the state retirement pension has disappeared? Whereas if they'd been able to buy as in previous decades, they would no longer have housing costs.

We own three properties because when we met in our late forties/early fifties I had worked my ass off gone without holidays/luxuries to buy and almost clear my mortgage. My dh had done the same we sold 'my' house moved to a cheaper area bought another flat which in three years of renting we have made no profit on as it's had a brand new kitchen (trashed in 9 months by a tenant) new boiler and central heating installed. We have seen our pension funds all but destroyed my dh business trashed by govt legislation (Post Office) and choose to live in a small home outside our preferred area in order to be able to reap some benefits from having worked since we were young teenagers. Being a 'll is hard work not a lot of profit but a reasonable return I refuse to be ashamed of or blamed for anyone's failure to buy. Save up, move to a cheaper area or just suck it up. I bought as a very young single mum with zero family help and with interest rates at 16% trust me it wasn't a walk in the park then and it isn't now.

I have 2 x 2 bedroom houses I let out. The first was my home that I kept when I moved in with DH. The other I purchased a few years ago by splitting my stake in house 1. It wasn't selling and the previous owner needed a fast sale.

I usually get just under 4% for the money I have invested. I could get that elsewhere for a lot less hassle.

I'm sure there are large profits to be made from housing, but I've just spent thousands on repairs to one of the properties this year and I will continue to keep my houses to a very high standard. You have to be prepared for the year the houses will cost you the whole of the profit. You have to balance this against non-paying and/or damage-causing tenants (luckily I have longer-term tenants in at the moment).

If you are not prepared then a guaranteed-profit from a bond might be a better prospect.

That's not the norm though. A picture of all these well off landlords running round town buying everything on the market just isn't reality (in my experience). Perhaps it depends on where abouts in the country you live.

Well I suppose those particular landlords in Kent I mentioned are probably quite unusual. But still, the cumulative effect of many small time landlords owning 2-3 properties each would have a similar effect. That's 2-3 properties which could have been a family home for someone. Buy-to-let mortgages are quite easy to get, I think, and cash buyers are always welcome, whereas to get a mortgage for your own home can be quite tricky and a long process. If the vendor wants a quick sale, then, they will probably go for the landlord over the hopeful owner occupier. And so prices rise further and further out of reach of the average person.

The worst people of all, though. are those investors (often living overseas) who buy up property in London and leave it standing empty, just to gain from the increased price on the property over a few years. This is not possible in many countries, and it should be outlawed by the government as a priority.

I'm both really. I have a flat I rent out and bought a house I live in. Fairly big mortgages on both I certainly don't think I'm stopping people buying property. I bought and lived in my flat for many years the. Had to leave due to work. I know a lot of people like myself. I don't see the oriblem to be honest but I certainly wouldn't make apologies for the bankowning 2 properties, ive worked bloody hard and made a lot of sacrifices along the way.

I should mention I make no money renting out my flat. I rent yo people I know, it just covers the mortgage and some extras and they get dirt cheap rent for the area. Obviously in the long run I hope it will be worth it but at the minute if anything I'm out of pocket often due to their cheap rent. I think it will be worth it in the long run