To wonder if cyclists should be made to use cycle lanes

[Notsureifthiswillworkasaname]

Especially where it is dangerous or slows down flowing traffic when they don't.
I am sure some places need more cycle lanes, but I am talking about stretches of road that have dedicated cycle lanes.
Cars have to use roads, pedestrians are expected to use pavements, so why can't cyclists be expected to use cycle lanes

And yes there will be cyclists who will flame this thread.

Wanker ODFO elke, all you have done is try to pick a fight - you have contributed naught to the debate really other than confirm that a cyclist will never admit that they ever do anything to contribute negatively to the situation

What a weird, self-centred post. Me, me, me. "Read what I have written in more detail until you agree with me" you plead. Not a chance. I absolutely don't identify with lazy people stuck in cars who criticse those they have never met in a generic way who are actually out there moving under their own steam. You will have to excuse my literal Dutchness here in pointing out to you that I have not "picked a fight" with you, but simply disagreed with your opinion. So why are you trying to make it sound something bigger and more terrible than it is? Although your blanket posting and over-estimationg of the validity of your own opinions make it seem more likely that your driving problems (and they are very much your driving problems) result from your intolerance of other human beings in a shared urban environment than anything else. I have contributed rather well to the thread actually, by pointing out what cycling in a rather more advanced cycling country is actually like, and how the high levels of car use in the UK make life difficult for everyone.

I also very much doubt that the roads around you are so very special in any way other than in your own mind.

I do see what you are saying, and I've already said that would never drive in a way that puts a cyclist in danger, however I do find it frustrating when my local cycle lane, is not used, it is a shared path, but it is on a side of road where there are no houses so is not really used by pedestrians other than those getting of the bus who then simply just cross the road.

I don't get annoyed at being held up per se, it just frustrates me and others being held up by one person when I can see that there is a safer alternative.

I accept that other cycle paths may be different and I've already said that I'd be happy to pay more towards improving them.

But equally there seems to be an attitude by many cyclists including those on this thread that a cyclist should never be inconvenienced on their journey and that they shouldn't have to stop to facilitate other road users at all. That is the point I am trying to make - yes, there has to be give and take, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of giving. Cyclists are vulnerable road users and obviously care should be given to that but often they make unsafe choices simply for convenience. the fact that that also impacts on other road users is a secondary point.

Cyclists can do no wrong in MN Land

No true, I got a telling off and a deletion for helpfully and patiently explaining why one was thundercunt last year

honeydragon I hadn't seen that, but I think the message is right, ticket the people blocking the bike lanes

So I'm in a queue with 15 cars infront of me. Ligghts change and five cars get through but four cars have overtaken me. So now I'm a queue with 14 cars infront of me. Lights change, 5 cars get through but four have overtaken me. So now I'm in a queue with 13 cars infront of me.

It could take a long, long time getting anywhere.

Thankfully on my commute I only have one set of lights with a short queue. So I don't filter IP the inside. Instead I put myself safely in a primary position, ie middle of the carriageway to prevent cars trying to squeeze by and then turning left across me as we move off.

Even then I will sometimes get cars honking at me as we set off. They see themselves as being stuck behind me for about 20 yards and don't like it. So they shout at me to get to the side......with no understanding about why it's so much safer for me. I'm not doing it to be a prick, or piss them off.....but to save my life.

it still doesn't make sense Simon - how are they pushing past and slowing you down, I don't get it? Yes they can go faster and overtake but that shouldn't mean that they are using up the space that you are cycling in. After they overtake I presume they don't slam the brakes on or block your way? If they do then they are complete tossers but I would hope that isn't the majority of car drivers.

Wanker, but can't you see that you come across to others as someone who thinks that motorists shouldn't be slowed down at all by pesky cyclists?

I'm happy to give and take.....just not happy to give (way) every 20yds.

Why do you think the govt tries (even though it's a poor attempt) to encourage people to cycle? It's been shown that increasing cycling uptake is of a major benefit to public health, lower obesity levels, less heart attacks, etc. so a major saving to the nhs and associated services.

I think they need to look long term more and invest more in the infrastructure if they want to encourage a better uptake. The Nethrlands demonstrates that if you build the infrastructure people will cycle.

Id suggest you never move to Amsterdam Wanker, you will be beyond stressed out.

that was a x post as I didn't see your second post there Simon, but I think I must be stupid as I can't see how that works.

Actually in the circumstances you describe where there is no alternative, I think you are doing the right thing, people shouldn't be racing through the lights at the speed limit anyway, it's a junction and everyone should be progressing through at a speed that reflects that - I'd rather a bike in the middle where I could see it than flying up the inside.

Cyclists have to undertake if they wish to reach a junction because if they remain in the queue they're repeatedly overtaken and so never mover forward. A queue only works if car drivers respect that cyclists are in it.

But equally there seems to be an attitude by many cyclists including those on this thread that a cyclist should never be inconvenienced on their journey and that they shouldn't have to stop to facilitate other road users at all.

Sorry, this made me laugh out loud.
You have spent the whole thread arguing that car drivers shouldn't be inconvenienced or delayed by being stuck behind a cyclist.

The only possible explanation for your spectacular double standards is that you think the time of car passengers is more valuable than the time of cyclists...

Simon, I think you've gone into a bit of a detour on this one. If you are in a queue at lights and not all the cars get through you will not be overtaken by a load of other cars because they will be moving slowly and you will keep up with the flow.

Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with cyclists filtering through traffic in general. Though they do need to be careful not to get caught out on the inside of lorries when lights change as seen so often recently in London.

Well if I was to undertake I wouldn't be using up the space the stationary cars were in. So why is it ok for the cars and not ok for the bikes?

And the cars which push past (and some do push past and slam the brakes on) prevent me from keeping my place in the queue. Thereby slowing me down.

Cycle lane in my city - I wonder if they just needed an extra metre to reach their 'cycle lane targets' ?

Thank you sunshine someone sees what I'm saying!

overthehill but you will be overtaken by cars which are behind you. Maybe not in slow moving traffic butcher a stationary queue sets off the cars will initially be faster. And believe me any drivers behind will Rev up to get past the cyclist even if the lights are going red and all they have to do is brake infront of the cyclist.

Drivers do that other thing of kerb hugging if they suspect a cyclist is going to come up the inside. And ive seen this happen nowhere near a junction so they're not trying to protect the cyclist. Then they look pissed off if you just overtake them instead.

From what you're describing Simon you need to be a combination of faster and more assertive. Nothing wrong with being in the middle of the lane to hold your position and I'm afraid I don't see how you can't keep up with traffic queuing through a set of lights.

I think sprechange has hit the nail on the head. The double standards here are staggering and scarily some posters just don't see it.

I do see it when cars are coming up to sets of lights that are changing or to a junction, and they will rush to get past then slam on. Anyway, I fully agree that filtering for a cyclist is fine, if done carefully.

Yes sadly doing 0-20mph in ten meters is beyond me from a standing start, most cars seem to manage it. How weak of me. Believe me I don't have a problem with being assertive on the roads at all. I'm in primary most of the time and quite happy to be in the middle of a carriageway.

When a cycle lane is shared with a pedestrian lane, it often means they are using a part of the pavement, running adjacent to the main road. When cycling along these type of cycle paths, bikes than have to stop at every side road they come to so they can safely get across the side road. This is annoying as they can't keep their speed up. If they cycle along the main road they have right of way to whizz past those side roads, like the cars do.

I've been to Amsterdam and Holland - didn't drive in Amsterdam though. We did take bikes and we did cycle (again not in Amsterdam) and it was good - I just can't see the same happening in the UK though I will state again I am happy to commit more investment to it.

I can see why slowing down or stopping every 20 yards is an inconvenience - what I am trying to say is that it is also an inconvenience when people decide that they don't want to do that and therefore make everyone else inconvenienced instead and that maybe people should also take that into account instead of deciding that it is only car drivers that are selfish?

I actually find that people cycling on the local 60 road quite frightening as it is windy and you can't be sure that there isn't a cyclist round the bend but equally it's a fast road so I can't drive at 30 and towards the middle of the carriageway either - however there isn't a cycle route so that's what people do. It is not helped by people not wearing bright colours or lights etc. so as much as it may be an inconvenience, it also makes driving the road worrying. That wasn't what I was unhappy about though so a bit off topic.

But cars going through a junction like that don't speed up so quickly. Either you're not describing it very well or I'm being dumb, because I just don't understand what you're trying to describe, and isn't something I've come across from cycling in rush hour traffic for 15 years.

I was on my bike and stopped at a light waiting to turn right. A car pulled up behind me and then overtook me on the inside as I turned round the corner. So cyclists aren't the only ones undertaking! This was 6.30 in the morning and there was no traffic around - also the road I turned into had two lanes and she could have overtaken me safely once around the corner.

I'm not in a big city so we don't get the constant crawling of traffic. Certainly when I drive and im at lights the lights change and im off, the road infront of me is totally clear and ive hit 20mph by the time I'm at the other side of the junction, the cars behind seem to keep up and I don't have a sports car.

I can drive through the majority of my town at 30mph.

I guess in London its a lot easier for cyclists to keep up as the traffic crawls all the time which it doesn't here.