Pictures of migrant children on fb

[FuryFowler]

Has anyone seen these pictures, of poor poor children washed up on the beaches of Libya and Greece, drowned from their failed crossing.

I know the pics are there to shock but it's devastating to see

I signed a petition the other day, which had a pic of a drowned child on the front page. I signed and shared but then felt uncomfortable about sharing such a graphic picture.

It's makes me cry what is happening there, but was I U for sharing?

Our 'borders' aren't actually closed. We are an island. Any boats could arrive on our shores. What would we do? It's only the big ports where people are stopped

"You are suggesting we march into Libya and Turkey and just set up a 'processing centre?

Obviously with local support, but I don't think they would object "

Missmoon

I've only just seen this. Do you realise what the political situation is in Libya right now?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Libya

I signed the Independent petition, because I do believe that a large scale expression of public opinion can make a difference to the policies of an elected government. I then (stupidly) shared to Facebook without realising that the photograph accompanied the petition - pretty naive, I know. I felt very uncomfortable with having the image on my newsfeed and deleted it. As pp have said, it's one thing for the media (however hypocritically in some cases) to publish the photographs to shock us from our complacency and quite another to indulge the grief tourism displayed by some social media sharing today.

However, to those posters saying there is nothing they personally can take responsibility for - please consider donating to the organisations linked upthread. And please read and consider further the well-informed posts of Ubik , LouiseBrooks et al from the comfort of your sofas - regardless of your socio-economic position - in a country not decimated by violence.

Why is it only now we need to 'do something', especially when that something does not help in the long term.

Because this is the largest movement of displaced people since 1945? Because it's having a massive impact on European countries already, meaning it's in our interests to solve it? Because the unprecedented number of people in boats and overland are at increasingly awful risk from criminals?

No one is saying we don't need long term solutions. But I disagree that a sole focus on long term solutions (with an implied 'let them drown' in the meantime), as some politicians are advocating, is the right course.

from the comfort of your sofas - regardless of your socio-economic position - in a country not decimated by violence.

Perhaps not violence in this country, and perhaps most wouldn't try and escape from here. But don't speak as if everyone in this country is living the high life, suggesting the poorest and most downtrodden in Britain have it better than anyone in these other countries. You obviously have no idea of the hidden worst than goes on in the UK, and to be dismissive of it, because 'there's always someone worse off', is a terrible attitude to have. It amazes me, how people can get high and mighty when it suits them, throwing around these pictures and petitions. Do you ever stop and wonder how many children have been injured or died in the UK, due to domestic violence? How many are sitting with bare cupboards right now, because they have not a penny to their name? How many cannot sleep, due to the fear of losing the roof over their heads, asking where their children will be kept safe?

If anyone was 'shocked from complacency' after seeing those pictures, I fear for the level if ignorance of the general population. Every day, children and adults are dying, in awful circumstances. You can't pick and choose which ones to be outraged by, who gets a helping hand and who still gets ignored. I've yet to see anyone answer why it is just Syria refugees we should be helping, when there are many more people from all over the world needing to escape war, hunger and persecution.

How many are sitting with bare cupboards right now, because they have not a penny to their name? How many cannot sleep, due to the fear of losing the roof over their heads, asking where their children will be kept safe?

Do you ever wonder whether people are capable of campaigning, volunteering or donating on more than one issue at a time?

Of course we shouldn't 'let them drown'! But we cannot be held responsible, as a country, that they decided to do that. I cannot imagine the terrible catch 22 situation the people getting on the boats are in, but it won't stop happening even if we offer help. We can offer room in our country, we can help the refugee camps with food and clothing - but can we stop people in Syria or elsewhere getting on boats to get to freedom? No, not unless we deal with the source of the issue causing them to want to escape initially.

It's not about campaigns, for goodness sake. It's about most people picking and choosing the things that horrify them, that it's never an outrage about all the other atrocities that I've listed throughout this thread. The reason this picture has caused such an outcry is because people are embarrassed, as they should be. This was too 'in your face' to be ignored. But people will still ignore it as a world-wide problem. They will cry, and sign petitions and go to bed tonight thinking they've made the world a better place. And maybe in the case of Syria they will have, but nothing else. In a week or so, most people will go back to their everyday lives, the middle class guilt they feel being sedated for a little while longer. Back to tutting and 'poor them' when watching the 10pm news, before going to bed and forgetting again.

but it won't stop happening even if we offer help.

It would be interesting to see what happened if we tried, wouldn't it?

We can offer room in our country, we can help the refugee camps with food and clothing - but can we stop people in Syria or elsewhere getting on boats to get to freedom? No, not unless we deal with the source of the issue causing them to want to escape initially.

As I said - the more desperate people feel the boats (or overland) are the only choice, we haven't a chance. People will keep paying the smugglers.

Creating realistic, safe, and more available paths to refuge in Europe directly from Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon could provide an alternative.

That requires a commitment of more numbers from European countries and it requires a coordinated approach.

So sick of all the jumping on board the grief-porn wagon. 21000+ people die every day from starvation , many of them children,and how many threads a day do we have about that on MN?

Please don't assume that I know-nothing about domestic hardship or privation in Britain - of course it exists, and of course it should be addressed. But the point I am making is that the UK is not engaged in a civil war right now, and in this respect alone we are collectively 'better off', if you feel the need for comparisons.

I don't think signing a petition is especially high and mighty, really.

do you ever wonder whether people are capable of campaigning, volunteering or donating on more than one issue at a time?

Yy.

What are the Arab states doing to help? How about Asia? Africa? All of which have nations bordering these countries.

I'm sorry, Jassy, but no it wouldn't be 'nice to see what happens', people will still die trying to escape war-torn countries, or one that persecutes them. And it still doesn't answer, if we did have a straight, open, 'we will help you, regardless', acceptance policy - how do we make sure we (or any other European countries) are not opening ourselves up for an attack? These are things we do have to think about, even if we don't like it - at least the governments have to.

"So sick of all the jumping on board the grief-porn wagon. 21000+ people die every day from starvation , many of them children,and how many threads a day do we have about that on MN?"

and repeat ... do you ever wonder whether people are capable of campaigning, volunteering or donating on more than one issue at a time?

Many of us do care about children starving, and victims of abuse, and the Chibok girls, and the thousands of people dying from preventable diseases and and and ...

But this is a global crisis, a human migration not seen for generations. We are directly affected, and might be for generations. We need to discuss it, we need to come up with a solution. It does NOT mean we don't care about other issues. Some of us do, incredibly deeply.

So youre not going to address my reply to your earlier post then, maddy?

Gently, again "people here have bare cupboards" and "middle class guilt". Why the incorrect assumption that every single person posting here and all of those sharing the picture elsewhere are middle class? The working class are just as capable of giving a shit about dying children, you know.

I'm sorry, Jassy, but no it wouldn't be 'nice to see what happens', people will still die trying to escape war-torn countries, or one that persecutes them.

Great, so let's not bother our safe little heads trying to change things, eh? It's always going to be like this, so why bother trying to make it a bit better, or come up with slightly better solutions that might save some lives, and make others a shitload better. What a complacent, depressing point of view.

I've already mentioned that, based on where our recent terrorists have actually come from, I'm a great deal more worried about domestic radicalisation caused by our fucking disgraceful attitude to refugees presenting higher risk than the entirely theoretical 'opening ourselves up for an attack' based on your misrepresentation of my (and others') views as a 'we will help you, regardless, straight, open' approach.

I was actually speaking as a plural, Britabroad, not you specifically. And I'm asking where the outrage is that people are starving to death in this country, not just about how aware people are of the issues that are swept over. But apparently, according to mumsnet at least, one persons desperation and near death living conditions are worth more than another, depending on what country they are from. Picking and choosing what to get angry enough about to 'sign a petition' or whatever constitutes 'doing something' these days is obviously the way forward on the matter.

So, what do you do, MrsGently, that doesn't involve choosing which causes you get involved with, support financially, volunteer for or campaign on behalf of?

And do you talk about them all, to an equal amount, every day?

What kind of parent would put their children's life at severe risk resulting in tragedy?
If we decided to take an extra 10,000 migrants on the basis of the tragic recent deaths it will only encourage millions more to take the ridiculously dangerous journey.

A FB post from someone I'm now going to defriend..

What can you say to that??

If you look at what the government spends money on, how it lets big corporations go untaxed, and bails out banks, dishes out 10% payrises to MPs, - well, there's plenty to go round. There is no reason asylum seekers AND the needy people already living in the UK can't both be helped.

It's just a matter of priority, and Cameron's government has made itself clear that the poor is not a priority, no matter where they're from.

It's very easy to say that I'm misconstructing posts, when no one (plural) will actually address the fact that they haven't been horrified by world atrocities up to now. Not just Syria. For the last time I say this - never huge posts about people dying of starvation in Britain - the rich country that's meant to automatically help refugees, no one demanding helping North Korea with petitions, no begging to let the street children of India to have free passage to the UK, no demanding our Prime Minister to do something about child kidnap and rape in Africa. We shall, as a society, continue to pick and chose what we want to see, and what we actively chose to ignore. Because it's having an 'outrage' once in a blue moon and helping people like those in Syria that eases our conscience about being lucky enough to not live in poverty. I truly hope there is a resolution for the innocent affected in Syria, I hope our country can give reasonable aid and find a way that means that people don't have to leave their homes in the first place. Then I hope they do the same for others, starting with those suffering in our own country.

What are the Arab states doing to help? How about Asia? Africa? All of which have nations bordering these countries.

There are an estimated 4 million Syrian refugees (ignoring the number internally displaced) in 5 neighbouring countries.

1.6 million in Turkey, 1.2 million in Lebanon, 600,000 in Jordan, 200,000 in Iraq, 130,000 in Egypt.

Around 6% of Syrians who have fled the country have come to Europe, according to UNHCR.

MrsGently, if you are concerned about compassion fatigue, what actions would you like those of us expressing upset/signing petitions/donating to this particular cause to take? Is there a specific domestic charity you would like to link to? How do you yourself prioritise?

There were loads of threads about the Chibok girls. There are always posts about poverty in Britain, and how benefit cuts are affecting the poorest people. Do you ever go to the 'in the news' section? There is always debate there. There have been a number of threads about the treatment of women in India. Shall I go on? Why can't we discuss THIS issue, specifically? And why does discussing it mean we presumably don't care about any other issue? That makes no sense.

It's very easy to say that I'm misconstructing posts, when no one (plural) will actually address the fact that they haven't been horrified by world atrocities up to now

Why do you assume people haven't? Why are you taking as your base that 'no one' cared until today? Plenty of us have been banging on about it for ages. Sure - some may have been jolted out of complacency and do-nothingness by pictures. Which makes me angry and depressed, but it's partly human nature.

I've seen plenty of posts on MN - and participated in many - about poverty and hunger in the UK, about DV, about violence against women, and any other number of injustices that make my blood boil.

But then I don't think MN posts are the be all and end all of activism against injustice, or even an objective measure of how people actually spend their time.