To be happy the science museum and natural history museum might have an entrance fee soon

[Ironfistfunkymum]

It makes the place unbearably busy, often have to queue to get in and most people don't appreciate it. They are just going as its something "free".

Me too liquidrevolution and we've been told to expect cuts of 30-60%. That's on top of the 40% we've already had. We've seen a quarter of our colleagues made redundant taking with them a wealth of experience and knowledge, projects cancelled, research programes cancelled, grant giving functions reduced, our ability to provide advice and guidance harmed and recruitment freezes, pay freezes for the last 5 years (and a further 4), restructuring and last gasp attempts to keep things going. Our position is becoming untenable. Look at what happened to the arts council and cabe. I can see very little light for the future of arts and culture and concern about charging for a handful of londoncentric institutions masks the true countrywide problems being experienced by all cultural institutions

Pico
"I think it is fair to acknowledge that the NHM & SM are not arts or culture destinations."

fyrefly makes some excellent points.I remember visiting both with a friend who was a Friend of both(they were well off and lived in Herts) when my DCs were young and being aghast at the charges-in the days before they brought in free visits ..We simply couldn't not have afforded it .(I was staying with her and it was a big treat for my childre)
If they stay free as I really hope they do,or at least introduce Family tickets at a reasonable price,and maybe a two tier system for UK and non UK residents, then there is nothing wrong with booking ahead for a timed ticket , as you do for most exhibitions .And limiting the number of visitors per day .
They are part of our national heritage and access should be within the grasp of even the poorest families .

Andrew - for carers places generally ask for proof of carers allowance or DLA.

I am amazed at the number of people who think access to educational places should have cost. Is that to keep the riffraff out? What an appalling way to think, poor people don't appreciate art or history! Fucking hell! I'm so glad I live in the real world and not in your bubble! You probably can ease your guilt by donating a tin of waitrose beans to your local food bank.

I went to the Imperial War Museum recently and yes, some of the exhibitions, particularly the First World War one, were packed, mainly with families with children. And I thought that was absolutely great. What is there not to like about children learning about vitally important history during their school holidays?

£5 per person would price out a hell of a lot of families. £20 for a family of 4 would significantly reduce visits for many people. Still, when tarquinella is at school we can't have the poor kids having any area they can compete on an equal footing can we?
I imagine most of the reason they are crowded in the rain is because many people doing low budget days out will plan picnics and parks on dry days and indoor stuff on wet ones. It's hardly cos museums are the only place with a roof.
If people are bothered about funding, then we should charge high prices for non UK residents. A free ticket system with a sliding scale for income that truly was fair to all would probably cost as much to implement as it would make. Those in favour of £5 a head could just make sure they donate 50% of that weeks disposable income before food shopping when they visit, because that's what in reality they are suggesting many poorer families should have to do.

I think it will be a great shame.So many children now spend the whole of they're childhood being raised in a household that is living well below the poverty line,which is heartbreaking enough in it's self and should never have been allowed to happen in any country as far as I'm concerned.

To take away the chance for a visit to such amazing places from so many children and families that just wouldn't be able to afford to go in there would feel like a tragedy to me.

Why should the children and families that are allready struggling so badly be penalised for being poor anymore than they allready are!

No, Amanda it's to allow them to continue to exist. There have been so many excellent museums close recently because they can't afford to stay afloat.

In the real world, it costs one hell of a lot of money to look after and display historic, scientific and archaeological collections. If the government can't or won't provide you with the funds, then you have to ask the people or else you go under. Or start selling off national treasures. Or start closing certain areas. I would rather pay a few quid entrance fee and go less often than see something like the NHM consigned to history.

Greenwich Museums were one of the few London museums not to drop the charges back in 2000 ish - they have not suffered.

When the charges were dropped the museums received massive grants to compensate for the loss of income. The grants have been reduced greatly over the years with further reductions on the cards.

It doesn't add up in the longer term, nothing to do with being snobby here but facts are facts, either the Government provide funding of the level required or we pay.

Have to admit though that the OP is unfortunately worded!

OP - you seem happy to reduce access to science and natural history to people who may already live in poverty. On that point alone, not withstanding the economics - you are unreasonable.

I think that ticketing is a very good idea. Free, or a minimal cost. £1 a ticket to cover cost of tickets.

Museums should absolutely stay free if possible. I believe that they are a resource to be enjoyed by all and are a vital educational tool and academic database. The sad reality is that they may well need to charge in order to continue to be a vital educational tool.

So what's the answer? Do we demand they stay free at all costs, even if that is to the detriment of the collections or their continued survival? Or do we accept that an entrance fee is needed in order for them to keep providing access? Of course it would be fantastic if the government stepped up the funding again, but I'm not holding my breath. Even half of English Heritage (y'know, the government body for heritage) has now been cut loose and turned into a charity...

Whilst I personally go to the Nat Hist for the architecture, Pico's point was that the big two science museums shouldn't be seen as stealing cash from the "culture" budget because the government would always be keen to fund anything that might improve the scientific literacy of the nation's children.

However the question of whether free admission is the best use of available funds or has unwanted side effects also applies to the V&A, BM, Tates and National Gallery (and the other galleries outside London) which definitely are part of the Arts and Culture sphere.

I think it should remain free, however maybe to reduce the queues they could introduce a ticketing system, so you book a slot online or over the phone.

I would be such a shame if poorer children could no longer visit.

IMO, the poorest children are not the ones who won't get to go to the NHM or SM because there are charges, they are the ones who won't get to go because whether it's free or not, their parents won't take them. And unfortunately, there will always be children in that position.

The country's finances will only stretch so far, so while it will be a sad thing if these museums have to start charging, it's hardly going to be top of the list of unfortunate losses due to government cuts.

I think London is a draw because there's so much free stuff to do (and I worked in London tourism for years). I'd like to see figures for how much a visitor to London who visits, say, 3 museums adds to the economy by spending money elsewhere. I mean, if everything has to have a monetary value attached to it.

oso I disagree. Just because a family is on a low income doesn't mean they don't do things with their children. Yes there are some parents who will never take their children anywhere but that isn't an income related thing, nor should it be a reason for stopping free access from places.

What this thread does highlight is why it is so important for those who can to make some level of donation when they visit these places to keep them accessible to all for as long as possible.

A good example of what's happening in the museum sector is Kew Gardens

www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/gardenstovisit/11475478/How-Kew-Gardens-is-battling-to-survive.html

It tears my heart out to hear what is happening at Kew, a place very close to my heart, and incredibly important historically and as a place of world leading conservation research. It's a special, special place that we should do everything in our power to protect. The job restructuring also led to at least one suicide.

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4202576.ece

If you feel strongly about our national museums then fight for them and don't vote conservative

Free ticketing is an awful idea IMO. It would be a waste of money to administer and would make the queues to get in much slower.

National Space Centre has an entrance fee and frankly you can't move in there for people using it as an alternative to a soft play centre. You certainly can't get anywhere close to the actual science end of things. I think it should all be free at the point of use, but using these places as a playground should be discouraged.

One thing about free entry for residents, unlike Spain the UK doesn't have an id card system. There is no single universal document that could be easily shown to prove eligibility as a UK citizen.

Showing passports excludes mostly the same group that charging for entry would.

I think it's fundamental that our national museums are free for UK citizens. DS has been on school trips to both NHM and the SM which would have been prohibitively expensive if the school had had to pay. Administering paid entry costs a fair bit too, meaning low income families wouldn't be able to go at all because the ticket prices would have to be high enough to cover them. I don't object to charging tourists.

The OP changed her premise halfway through the thread - her original point was that people going 'don't appreciate it because it's free'.

Given she's allegedly someone who feeds her children quinoa yet can't spell it and C&Ps wholesale and passes the results off as her POV in her posts, I think her opinions about things are probably about as solid as Mr Blobby.

Of course they should remain free! How completely unjust to reduce such facilities to those who can pay (which already happens to some extent just by virtue of the cost involved getting there, unless you happen to live in Kensington, in which case I guess your income is alright.

Peak time free ticketing could help and actually I don't think it would be very costly to administer. Last time we went to the Science Museum it was verging on a fire hazard it was so crowded. We went over the the V&A which I thought my kids would find boring but actually they loved it - and it was quiet.