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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

How does someone get a primary school place directly through the school without LA being involved?

72 replies

Ellaeyre · 29/08/2015 22:29

Hi, I am sure someone will know the answer to this. I'm curious as I thought all school place (in-year) had to go through the local authority.

My child is at the top of a waiting list and the space that became available was given to a child with special educational needs who went directly to the school. The local authority have told me they were not involved in this allocation.

The space was left open for a term (since Easter) until the child can start in September.

Can anyone shed some light on the allocation process here? Thank you.

OP posts:
NeedMoreSleepOrSugar · 29/08/2015 22:38

If the child has a statement and the school is named on the statement then that child's place is an 'extra' place - created just for them not part of the waiting list etc. I'd guess that's what happened.

WorraLiberty · 29/08/2015 22:40

That does sound strange.

Are you sure they didn't mean that the space that became available, was never going to be your space to begin with? In other words because it would never have affected your particular waiting list?

Schools have to keep so many spaces available for children with SN that can only be met by that school (or best met), and for looked after children and children of travellers.

Therefore, it would never have been offered to you in the first place...meaning that it doesn't affect your waiting place?

This sounds garbled but it makes sense to me Blush

TheHouseOnTheLane · 29/08/2015 22:41

What sugar said....it's as it should be OP and as you're at the top of the list, it won't be long. By year 3 there will be more places as some kids move on at that time.

TheHouseOnTheLane · 29/08/2015 22:42

Actually Worra has it....the space came up....but the child with SEN got it before you...even if they applied after you....because that's how the allocation rules are.

Icimoi · 29/08/2015 22:47

The child may have lived in another area and got the place because his local authority named the school on his statement or EHC Plan. Your LA would have had to be consulted but if the school said it was able to meet his needs they would have had little choice but to agree. Or a tribunal might have ordered that the school be named.

Schools don't have to keep set numbers of places for children with SN, but if they have a vacancy and the child's needs can be met in the mainstream, then the child with a statement/EHCP has priority.

Original poster
Ellaeyre · 29/08/2015 22:52

Thanks for the replies so far.

I am unsure how to answer your question but this is the information I have:

A child left the school last Easter. My child has been the 1st child in the waiting list (with sibling priority) for almost the whole school year. So my child would have been the 1st child on the waiting list at Easter when the other child left. The LA were not told by the school that a child had left. However the space had still not been filled on the last day of term.

I asked the LA why we hadn't been offered a place since I know a child left at Easter, and the LA did not know about the child leaving at Easter! They then contacted school who told them the space was filled by a child with SEN who had gone directly to the school.

Hope I haven't confused you more! It does seem odd that LA were not told though by the school?

OP posts:
ShellyF · 29/08/2015 22:55

Highly unusual.....is it an Academy?They may have different rules to the rest of us.

UpSeeDaisies · 29/08/2015 22:55

Our school is Catholic and so is voluntary aided. This means the governors choose who gets in on appeal not the LEA. Could that be it?

Samcro · 29/08/2015 22:55

a child with SEN will quite rightly take priority as this will most likely be the only school that can meet their needs

lifesalongsong · 29/08/2015 22:58

Is it an academy with it's own admission rules rather than an LA school maybe.

And it's a misconception that schools hold places for any kind of child that might come along in the future, it doesn't work like that at all but as others have said a statement (not actually sure that they still exist is that form) will trump everybody else but it doesn't seem right that the school didn't make it clear they had a place at Easter.

I don't know what you're asking AIBU about but I'd be annoyed if what you say is tue

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 29/08/2015 22:58

School's don't need to keep a space or have a vacancy if the child has a statement or EHCP that names the school. They admit over the admission number in that case and the child becomes an excepted pupil.

So if the class is full at 30 and a child with a statement naming the school makes an in year application, then the class increases to 31. Unfortunately for whoever is top of the waiting list, this means that 2 children have to leave before there is a vacancy to admit off the waiting list.

WhyCantIuseTheNameIWant · 29/08/2015 22:59

That sounds strange!
They need bums-on-seats to get their funding from the LEA.
They would be losing money by having a space.

And what about the child who left? They must be getting an education somewhere? Within the LEA? Another LEA?
Home school?

But then again.... I had to speak to ours to get my ds sorted for school dinners in big school.

They sent a letter, saying he was entitled to dinner at the local comp. and stapled to this, was a nearly identical letter saying he was entitled to dinner at the junior school in the town where the comp is.
He has never been to town juniors, only village juniors!

NotMyMonkey · 29/08/2015 23:00

I thought all admissions, including those with SEN/looked after children etc had to go through the LEA? There is a primary school education board on here with some extremely knowledgeable people on, post there and I'm sure you'll get some great advice.

2boysnamedR · 29/08/2015 23:02

Can you look up the admission policy? SEN is normally near the top with children in care above siblings.

But the LA should have known if a space had come up? The fund the places after all? I used to work in a college a the maths for bums on seats is a bit fuzzy now. But I think maybe they keep the funding if it's the last term? Still, sounds weird the didn't know

I was second on a waiting list. Someone moved in area closer to the school so you possibly won't stay first in the list - but guess you know that

SouthWestmom · 29/08/2015 23:05

Does the school coordinate it's own admissions or does the LA? We're you on the schools waiting list if so?
Is it possible the parents of the child with Sen applied at the same time as the place became free and they became number 1 but deferred for some reason? Does the schools admissions criteria place Sen higher than sibling? (Not a statement or EHCP)

Original poster
Ellaeyre · 29/08/2015 23:06

It is a regular primary school and not an academy or faith school.

I will try asking the LA for more information but it seems the ship has already sailed in regards to the place.

But what is odd is the class remains at 29 and no one new has started yet.

In terms of it being the only school to cater for SEN, through my friends with SEN children at our school, I doubt very much this would be the case. Our school has no particular facilities that the other local schools do not have.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ellaeyre · 29/08/2015 23:12

The LA looks after the school waiting list and not the school. The criteria is looked after children, followed by SEN, followed by siblings and lastly distance.

The only possibility is if the SEN child applied literally immediately after the child left (before the school had a chance to even tell the LA a space had come up), and then the SEN child deferred place. But this sounds like a long shot to me? What are the chances of child applying literally the day the other child leaves/informs the school they are leaving?

The LA confirmed we have not moved from the number 1 slot on the waiting list all year and no other places have come up at the school.

I feel something sketchy might have happened, for example the school held back from telling the LA about the place because they wanted to hold the place open for the SEN child? Maybe they knew about the SEN child? By filling the vacant space with SEN child they keep class size to 30 instead of 31 had we been given the vacant space then SEN child requested space?

OP posts:
lifesalongsong · 29/08/2015 23:22

The numbers for pupil funding are set annually so it doesn't matter if a child leaves the next day after the census is taken the school will keep the funding and the same if a child joins the next day, the school won't get funded until the next year.

Funding wouldn't be a reason not to tell the LA that a child had left. I don't know what the obligations are about who you have to tell and when but maybe the child who "left" at Easter didn't officially tell the school they'd left, maybe the school was expecting them to return

NeedsAsockamnesty · 30/08/2015 00:22

I know in the county I'm in there are several children with ECHP plans or statements without a confirmed school place for September.

What appears to be happening is schools have been provisionally named before the plans are finalised but then for varying reasons those schools are not going to be attended and other schools are being identified during CAF meetings and those schools are being notified and investigations are being undertaken to see if they can meet their needs.

This obviously results in very short notice admissions or admissions that do not happen

Arsenic · 30/08/2015 01:26

SEN depts and admissions depts of LAs work fairly independently of each other.

Could it be that the ECHP team in the SEN dept were already liaising with the school about the child with SN by the time the other child left, so the school were aware that place was 'earmarked' and therefore didn't notify the primary admissions team of a vacancy. Because there wasn't one, really?

Arsenic · 30/08/2015 01:40

The only possibility is if the SEN child applied literally immediately after the child left (before the school had a chance to even tell the LA a space had come up), and then the SEN child deferred place. But this sounds like a long shot to me? What are the chances of child applying literally the day the other child leaves/informs the school they are leaving?

Honestly OP, this^ isn't how statements and ECHPs work. There is a long process of soundings, consultations and discussions. A child with statemented SN (their parents, in fact) doesn't just apply to the school in the normal way.

I feel something sketchy might have happened, for example the school held back from telling the LA about the place because they wanted to hold the place open for the SEN child? Maybe they knew about the SEN child? By filling the vacant space with SEN child they keep class size to 30 instead of 31 had we been given the vacant space then SEN child requested space?

"Sketchy" in what way? Like a special favour? Nepotism? The child of a member of staff?

There's no need. SN placements are separate process. Why would people pointlessly risk their jobs?

I know being on the waiting list isn't fun, and you must be annoyed to be waiting so long, but I will bet you any amount nothing underhand has happened. You're chasing shadows.

TastingTheRainbow · 30/08/2015 02:45

Sounds normal for SEN admissions to me. My son has had a school place 'earmarked for 6 months' as in the school in question were aware that once statement was finalised they were likely to be named in it. However last minute the plan changed and in fact the school he will be attending in September got 3 weeks notice he was coming and the place granted way after the admissions process had been completed. SEN admissions can be short notice / reserved for long periods of time and quite rightly take priority.

RockinHippy · 30/08/2015 03:06

If you look at the entry criteria for the school itself, you will very likely see "medical need" as well as "looked after children" are high up on the list.

It's very likely that this DC was allocated the place due to "medical need" IE; it's his closest school, or the easiest journey for him, maybe he has family members there who can be of support to him, or perhaps the school have been commended for their good work with his type of SEN - basically any reason why this school is the best in the area suited to his needs medically.

This won't have been allocated by the school, but by the Community Paediatrician who makes a decision based on evidence submitted by his family, medical team etc.

We lost a school appeal for my daughter, we shouldn't have as they ignored medical evidence that she needed to go to this school - the community paediatrician over turned it & they had to make a space for her, so I'm guessing this is how it happened

honkinghaddock · 30/08/2015 07:24

If a child has a ehcp or statement they will nearly always get a place at the mainstream school of their choice provided the school can meet the childs needs.I think what the LA meant was that it is an automatic process. The school may have known the child was coming before the other child left.

Barbeasty · 30/08/2015 07:31

I'd get this moved to the primary board in education because there are some very knowledgeable people on there.

I'd also try and find out the exact timing. It could be that the school was named on a statement and it was right that the space went straight to them. It could be that the timing should have meant your child should have been offered the place and then the other child admitted as an excepted pupil. With the 2nd scenario I should think you'd have reasonable grounds for appeal, but the experts on the other board would be able to give good advice.