to want to know what the hell ISIS told the London mother?

[BloodyLeadStuckInSharpener]

What would persuade someone to take their precious children and join ISIS? I am genuinely curious. From this story - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34095120

The children, I asssume, will be all geared up for a trip/holiday and may well be excited.

It makes me feel sick to think about the 9 year old girl Safiyyah, how long until she is raped? Picture of her in her little pink coat and pink bag - she looks so young and innocent.

WHY would a mother do this? I am actually asking! HOW do ISIS persuade people? :(

Where did I say I was pleased that children had been taken to whatever fate awaits them?

I'm not sorry that someone who admires a violent fanatical extremist religion has left the UK. Awful that she has taken her children with her to face who knows what misery, but I'm not sorry that the mother has left.

It is very troubling whirlpool but unless you could implement some sort of system where parents are not allowed to pass their religious views onto their children I don't see how you can stop parents deciding to go and live in a culture which supports .their religious views. if you or I don't believe in the same things is that a reason to stop parents raising children in the religion of their choice?

I suppose one way to stop people reading IsIS propaganda would be for all social media to be censored as it is in China?

So, you wouldn't even try to do anything about this.

At the moment if children are at risk of being removed from the country and placed in a situation which is dangerous to them eg FGM, taking them to join terrorist organisations, then if they get the chance the authorities can and will step in. Social services, heard of them?

Anyone who looks at a picture of a 9yo girl who (unless they manage to locate and stop them before their journey is completed) is at extremely high risk of an unimaginably awful time, and says "oh well what can you do" is, yes, utterly lacking in compassion.

And to say that in order to prevent this sort of shit we have to ban all religion in the UK and be like China and all the rest of it, what a load of shit.

Yes that's right, we either need to ban all religion entirely, or stand aside while this happens to children.

And then this "who are we to interfere in another person's religion / culture, who are we to say this is wrong" right so you'll be writing to your MP to get the laws against FGM retracted for a start then. At the moment it is illegal to remove a child from the UK so that they can undergo FGM. Appalling isn't it! We need to let people take children out of the country for that, and we need to let people take children out of the country to be given to ISIS.

Let's agree to disagree shall we.

The mother was probably denied much education as many Muslim women are. What a flipping ignorant statement. None of us know anything about this woman or her background. There are lots of ignorant white women in this country and lots of educated Muslim women.

And many many muslim women went to uni married men of their choice and are also integrated into uk culture. How ignorant it is to think only sikhs or any other religious minorities are the only ones capable of this and not muslims

The female Muslim demographic where I live (East London) is exactly what i described, no education, arranged marriage, breeding machines who arent allowed to work or mix. I have male Muslim friends who i met thru work, whose wives I have met, so I am not takling rubbish. These men genuinely think their wives have great lives. I am not so sure.

Wow whirlpool you've really made a lot of assumptions and read a lot into what I said!

I agree it is not right what that woman has done to her children if she's taken them to Syria. However, how you can stop someone believing in the religion of their choice and making the choice to go and live in a country which actively promotes that religion is not as easy as just getting social services involved.

Would you be so upset if the woman had chosen to go to any of the other countries in the world where girls are married very young - there are plenty to choose from! Do you think any parent who wants to move their family to, eg, Bangladesh should be reported to social services?

I am reacting to your response to the OP who was concerned about the children, and wondering what on earth she had been "sold" to persuade her that this was a good course of action.

Your response made no reference to the children and said it was a good thing the mother had gone.

Your subsequent posts have given a brief nod to the fact that it's bad she took the children and then you've launched into a lengthy explanation about how and why the UK should not bother themselves with children being removed in this way, on the grounds "who are we to say what ISIS believe and are doing is wrong" which is a ludicrous argument.

Incidentally, if a child was at risk of being removed from the UK to be married age 9 then social services would involve themselves and prevent the removal (in theory). Yes our authorities take a dim view of children being removed from the UK to have any of this sort of shit done to them yet you seem to be under the impression that we don't. Like I say, you have a problem with that, contact your MP.

ISIS just blew up the Temple at Palmyra. Are you going to say "well who are we to say that is wrong" as well? Or is it just 9yo being forced into marriage that you are what can you do about it and who are we to say it's a bad thing.

Cultural relativism being used to say the UK authorities should turn a blind eye to abuses against children, luckily for you, the authorities have rarely managed to intervene, that doesn't mean that we should change the law to say that they shouldn't, that as a nation we should turn our backs when we could try to stop children being removed to situations where there is a very high risk of harm.

I've got no time for this.

There are 4 real live children involved in this. Anyone whose first response to this doesn't include "those poor children" or similar is, like I said, demonstrating a severe lack of compassion.

The mother can rot in hell for all I care
So selfish and stupid to take her children there
I hope the children stay safe

Sazzle thats just your experience of one area one set of muslims not all. I can assure you it is 100% not true of all

The mother can go hang, frankly. She's an adult and if she wants to join a bunch of fanatical death cultists, she can (do leave your passport first though, eh? We don't want you back...)

The kids are another matter. We should do everything possible to prevent them from going. 9 years old, fucking hell. Poor little thing. She has no idea of the hell she's walking in to.

And why do people join? Well I think a lot of it is down to the kind of mindset that can't handle complexity or shades of grey in life. Things are either holy or evil to them. No subtlety, no need for critical thinking, no need to really think about anything. Just get told what to do and that God is your co pilot.

Same attitude as George bush had to the First Iraq war. Convinced Jesus is on his side. Terrifying.

Being brought up in a family environment where critical thinking is not encouraged and mixing with other cultures and faiths is discouraged doesn't help either. Those schoolgirls who joined - all that stuff in the paper about 'oh but they were intelligent and headed for all As!' It's all a red herring. They may have been academic but how often do you think their families discussed things which really require a bit of critical thought with them? Or political nuance? Pretty much never, I'd wager. Because that sort of thing leads to some rather tricky questions about religion.

poor kids.

whiirlpool you've really misunderstood what I said. But never mind. I can see that you are extremely upset and agitated so I'm not going to inflame things further by saying anything else.

The majority of Muslims I know are educated, working or have chosen to give up work after children and married of their own choice.
My Muslim female friends are solicitors, drs, teachers, dentists, accountants and pharmacists. They are all from a Pakistani or Bangladeshi background. Only one of them wears a hijab and they all follow the religion at different levels.
I live in East london too, towards essex.
Yes there are Muslims who are oppressed and uneducated and that's wrong but don't think all Muslims are like that.
I think philosophy should be taught in schools. People really need to learn to question religion and society.

Because she has been totally brainwashed and thinks she is going to live in a better place. Sorry as I feel for the children, it's her fault and as long as they cancel their passports and refuse re entry into the UK I actually don't care! Her choice, let her deal with it.

You would refuse her children back into the UK Happfeet??!! What the fuck have they done to deserve that?

Poor kids :(