To be in tears over the news today?

[KnockMeDown]

71 migrants suffocated in a truck. Countless scores drowning in the Med. There doesn't seem to be an answer - they will keep coming, searching for a better life, wanting just the basics for their families.

I've kept it at bay up to now, but that truck... What were they thinking at the end

I don't know what to say, or think, or do, but I am incredibly upset over it.

thing is, people have a very selective sympathy for these people.

When they are found dead in a truck we are all horrified and rightly so. But when they are in Calais trying to come across the border into Britain, storming the train tracks to get through the tunnel we ask what the government are doing to stop them. And why should they come here when they should be staying in France. Britain is too full as it is, apparently, so something ought to be done about these migrants. That's the overriding feeling anyway.

Except the people in calais are the lucky ones. They are where they are because they're the lucky ones, but still they are the ones who are "deserving" of the hatred, the vitriol, according to the vast majority. But another day, another truck, and any one of those in the camps at Calais could be one of those bodies featured on the news, one of those driving people to tears, wondering what we're doing to ensure that people aren't dying in these circumstances. They're the same people, but they are seemingly only deserving of sympathy if they end up victims. If they manage to avoid death on their way they turn from victims into a scurge on our society.

What would you want for yourself under the same circumstances?

I am not sure that those are the same people. I mean I live a long way from Calais so could be accused of having no clue but I was just as sympathetic.

I also think it is ok to be frustrated with the situation which affects your day to day - I don't think that overrides your compassion

Our government, and those of other EU countries are doing nothing to deter these people from risking their lives from trying to get to Europe where they think they will have a better life, If they manage to reach here they will be given accommodation, money, nhs and education and as long as this continues they will come. The lorry might have been in Austria but it was bringing people to European countries where they thought they would be given everything for free.

My post isn't clear. I mean that I am not sure those complaining about Calais are the same necessarily as those who are vocally compassionate.

I think we need to start accepting that in the UK and other wealthy countries that living in extended families etc. will become the norm. Once economic migration stops then there will only be refugees coming which is far smaller in numbers.

That anne Robinson programme with the lonely billionaire and his £90million house and these desperate people in lorries with nothing absolutely nothing risking death to get here to clean toilets. The systems not working.

what do people think about people having a spare room offering it to someone in need to avoid the bedroom tax?

I don't agree with the bedroom tax at all but what if people started offering their spare rooms to people who were homeless etc.
Could this be a solution if they received a small payment from the govt for getting someone off the streets?

YY wannabe

Oh noes! We can't let them in. How will we cope. Shut the borders! We'll sink! They are criminals and rapists after our women!

Oh noes some people died and there were pictures and it upset me eating my breakfast.

Also worth noting that refugees do not always stay in their host countries. Often they will return when things calm down.

If we put money in place sooner, decent if basic refugee camps could be set up closer to home. But we don't then spend the same amount of money trying to stop them getting here.

Kerala yes that is what I thought exactly watching that programme, that billionaire has loads of space and money whilst people are on the streets dying. I couldn't sleep at night knowing I could do something to help

No way..... Some of these single men will be Isis linked. There is no background on any of them

No thanks. My children live here, no way am I putting them at risk

Agree with every word, wannaBe. You put it better than I could.

Fantasyland the problem with that is that people would potentially be putting their own safety at risk. How would you keep people safe if they're opening up their homes to strangers? Any kind of vetting process would be prohibitively expensive.

Plus people who are eligible for paying the bedroom tax are people in local authority housing, private home owners are not affected, therefore it opens up the reality of those who are already worse off having to potentially put themselves and their children at risk in order to do better financially, while the rest look on.

KERALA yes, the system doesn't work. Inequality is a massive issue.

Headline from Forbes:

The 67 People As Wealthy As The World's Poorest 3.5 Billion

How can anyone argue that this is ok. That it's anything other than a fucking travesty.

I have been in tears earlier than this incident, because I can't see an answer. My heart says 'please come here, we'll look after you'. And my head tells me that is simply impossible. We can look after some refugees from ISIS and from other war-torn areas, but nothing like all of them.

I am feeling cross enough now to want the death penalty for people traffickers.

Meanwhile, the places that the people traffickers are most likely to dump their victims in are suffering massively. Many of them are tourist destinations.

Eighteen months ago we went as a family to Crete. On our second day our hire car was broken into outside Knossos, and although nothing was taken (as there was nothing to take), it really unsettled us. We didn't dare leave towels and swimmers in the boot, as we'd planned, so we could visit a beach on our way home from a site-seeing trip each day, in case it happened again. Greek police were fairly positive it was 'Bulgarians' which seems to be their catch all phrase for 'Anyone we don't know and might be an illegal immigrant, but frankly we're too busy'.

So this summer, despite there being some damn good offers in Greek Islands and Turkey, we ended up in Menorca. Which was lovely, but I'm very aware we went there only because it's the furthest north of the Balearics and therefore unlikely to have fishing boats of illegals washed up on its shores.

I very much doubt that we are the only family thinking of our holiday in terms of safety and security as much as value for money. And feeling faintly guilty too.

Tunisia is very obviously the most massive victim of this of all.

"we will look after you"
how?
thats the bit I can't get.
where is the housing . the SS back up. schools, health care and yes money going to come from?

Local authority would take the brunt..... Next door to me is an afghan family. Mum. Dad. 5 kids. Were housed in a 5 bed new build bypassing hostels and B and B for some reason. Sod the families already in hostels waiting months already

so whilst the LA is taking the brunt, what happens to the other people they should be helping?

Macadamia I always find it strange that people know every circumstance of neighbours lives, I'm not saying it's not true that the Afgham family were rehoused bypassing B and B and hostels but how do you know this?
There could have been reasons you not aware of

Well there are 610,000 empty homes in England. But you are right that hosting 1.59m, for instance, refugees like Turkey had in 2014 is either going to be chaotic and problematic unless there is an awful lot of infrastructure in place.

There are short-term problems and solutions and long-term problems and solutions.

Plan for international humanitarian crises (there not so hard to predict) and put more money in sooner to relief efforts geographically closer to the sites of crises. We are an extraordinarily rich country despite govts always pleading poverty. Someone on R4 said the other day that the money spent on barbed wire or whatever efforts to keep Calais refugees out of the UK could have funded relief efforts closer to home.

Long term the, ehem, Western hegemonic capitalist international system (!! )is not very equitable. We need more equality within and between countries. Not something you can fix in a day, if at all. We should try though.

fantasy because they are my ( lovely) neighbours! And because in their early days here I was regularly handed their phone to speak to everyone from delivery companies/doctors/various people to help them move in as they didn't speak English! The doorbell would ring and one of the kids would be there thrusting the phone in my face, and I found myself directing in vans or explaining something! Don't get me wrong, I didn't mind helping them, their young DS is best friends with mine now. It just grates a bit that they were moved in ahead of others who had waited ages and were fleeing DV etc

BUT where is this"money" coming from?

I find it odd we don't seem to even know our neighbours anymore fantasy

That should be our starting point if we want to be helpful. What's the point of welcoming all these people into our country if we are going to ignore them when they become our neighbours?

sam the government? Maybe. They can find some if they dig deep enough

What's your solution, Samcro?