to let 4 week old sleep on stomach while I lie alongside?

[mikado1]

I have literally had one 2.5 hour stretch of sleep plus a few hours, maybe three total in last 36 hours. Ds2 is suffering desperately at night with wind and gas. I have given up chocolate, am drinking fennel tea, winding him and keeping him upright for a half hour after each feed and still he snorts and writhes once put down in his elevated cot. I noticed when he lies horizontal and tummy down he seems more comfortable and releases some gas. I know it's a big no no but aibu to do it with sensor monitor on while sitting here beside him where I can hear him breathing? Don't plan on it tonight but thought might relieve some of it for him. Such a killer that it seems to accumulate over the day.

Everything I googled and got from the two bf books I have (Clare Byam-Thing and some hippy dippy knit-your-own-bra one, plus La Leche League was opposite to what this paediatrician said today BUT since I implemented her suggestions (I only saw her at half 12 today) I have a peacefully snoozing baby who seems very much happier.
Are your breasts full and solid with milk? They shouldn't be.
How often are you feeding? It takes a baby 3-4 hours to digest a stomach-ful of milk, and the stomach is about the size of their two little fists together. Hence the convention of every 3-4 hrs.
The fermentation thing is because, if you have too much milk, they are getting masses of watery, high-lactose, swiftly digested foremilk and possibly no creamy, slowly digested, gut-settling hindmilk.
The frantic fighty feeds with crying and the sleepy night ones being better sounds exactly like our situation. I don't know why he would get frantic because he needs to switch sides. In fact switching sides is not necessary unless your supply is low and you need to boost it. If he was impatient because there was no milk left, he should just be insistent/ impatient, not red-facedly frantic.

Just to add, my 10 wk old DS sleeps on his side, swaddled in a sheet with his hands up by his face. I also prop his Moses basket up at one end so he's not flat. It really works and he sleeps well despite battling with wind throughout the day.

My children all suffered from silent reflux and this was the only way I could get them to sleep in the end. It was awful...tired out but feeling so much guilt about going against advice. By the time the second and third children came I reasoned that on balance it was better to let us all get some sleep then walk around like a zombie barely able to function (made the decision one day when I gave my daughter the wrong medicine because I was so tired I couldn't think straight).

When they were really small I would put them in their sides during the night. Then I co-slept for awhile, then when they were even more bigger I did put them on their fronts to sleep (with much agonising and fretful checking throughout). Only you can decide what's right.

Thanks everyone. Really appreciate all the tips and experiences. villainousbroodmare, no, breasts not full. I thought maybe he was getting frustrated with end of milk. . Will try keep him on one side per feed. He was going 3/4 hours but because sleep disturbed either because of wind or an overexcited big brother I have been feeding more often as that's all that will settle him once awake-delaying soother like I said. . Also thought maybe 3 week growth spurt during the week so was just going with that. He is asleep still so he's comfy out, think I will try on his side after next feed and stop the fennel tea for a few days..

Crohnicallyaspie thanks for that, no I definitely don't have oversupply to that extent and yet my description of him ties in with villainousbroodmare who does have oversupply. As you say it might just be regulating for now.

IF you do have the rock-hard, squirty breasts of over-supply, with all the misery that brings (shredded nipples for you, pain and exhaustion for you both), I wouldn't think that making some downward adjustment in supply at 4 weeks is going to blight your future supply. If women who have dried up can be re-lactated, surely you can pick it up as your baby is able for and needs more. If a hungry 3 month old empties both breasts at a feed, won't they make more at the next one?

So maybe not oversupply in your case, then, Mikado - I've hijacked this thread with my theory now, haven't I?!
I think yellow mustardy stools are quite normal for him. Finn's were green and frothy at the weekend. (TMI )
You can't keep going on that little kip, though, you'll go mad. I know, I cried in the doctor's office today

Yes, but it can be a frustrating time, with baby seemingly constantly on the breast while your supply goes up again.

Imagine something like a Brita filter jug where the water drips through slowly. The bottom of the jug is the milk available for baby's feed, and the top of the jug is the 'supply' message.

Baby is hungry so empties the jug and you fill the top. The thing is, there wasn't quite enough to satisfy their hunger completely so they want their next feed earlier. But the water takes time to come through (as your body takes time to make more milk) so this time the jug isn't as full so baby doesn't get a full feed this time either. Each time baby is satisfied for less time and so the feed they get each time is smaller... Until your body suddenly ramps up production (demanding two or even three jugs be filled) and your baby can't feed quick enough to empty and you have oversupply again.

Much better if you can to stick it out till 6 weeks with the other tips, at 6 weeks your milk supply regulates, I found all of a sudden my oversupply vanished.

I know, felt like crying before posting earlier..feel like I am doing everything can think of to help. It is hard because I have a 3yo to get up to at 6.30... anyway, dh on supervision now and will roll him on side when going to bed so going to put head down now and get some shut eye before the night ahead...

Hope you get some sleep!

The recommendation is to have a brand new mattress for each child, or it was when I was pregnant last time 3 years ago? Yet another of the variables related to reducing SIDS

Not had time to rtft but I would really recommend gripe water. It worked wonders for my dc at that age. Evenings used to be particularly bad and dh would be ready with a syringe of gripe water after each feed. Almost instant wind!

I found it very easy to get hold of - Boots sell it, and my local Co-op pharmacy also had it. It tastes sort of herby and is pretty innocuous.

Good luck and congratulations on your newborn!

DD slept on her tummy on me - between my boobs - for the first 4 months.

Hi Mikado - it sounds like calling a BF specialist might help. They can also give you some info on normal infant sleep and some safe, BF friendly, strategies for getting some more sleep.
FWIW I bedshared with my younger two from birth and my eldest from 2 months because with DS I was so sleep deprived I was hallucinating.
If you are worried about not 'finishing sides' affecting how unsettled you baby is using breast compressions can help - they speed up feeds and encourage active swallowing so babies 'drain' the breast more quickly, Jack Newman has some excellent videos on his website.

Helplines:

National Breastfeeding Helpline: 0300 100 0212
LLL Helpline 0845 120 2918.
NCT Helpline 0300 330 0771

Of course Kellymom is also a fantastic resource on pretty much everything and Nancy Mohrbacher's website breastfeedingmadesimple.com is brilliant.

villainousbroodmare - wonderful that the paediatrician's advice helped you and your baby and you've found something that works for your situation. IME and according to most research most BF babies need to nurse minimum 8 - 12 times per 24hours. It may be that you have a large breast storage capacity, interesting article on that here although it's more to do with sleep and how it affects it
The 4 hours thing came about because a cattle farmer called truby king decided that as calves only needed to feed every 4 hours then clearly so did human babies despite there being a complete difference in make up of the milk, brain sizes and number of stomachs!

Do you have a fast letdown? My DD used to gulp the breast milk at the beginning, and when I could feel the letdown, she'd struggle against it and gulp lots of air.
This resulted in a gripey tummy and lots of wind.

If that's the case, you could try a Muslin cloth, so whenthe let down begins, remove baby and cover with cloth. After 10 seconds or so, the flow is not as fierce, and hopefully baby won't be getting as much wind?

Worth a shot!

I was going to say the same as chronically - the HV ruled out tongue tie with DS (who was very similar to your DS2), but when we saw the feeding specialist it turned out he did have tt. I had thought I could see one and it turned out HV was wrong. I am certain that the specialist was right because having it snipped made all the difference.

I have to confess to having put both children on their fronts from early on - DD at 5 weeks - they were both breastfed, no smokers in house etc. DD had a heart condition and reflux (and probably a tt that never got snipped) and she just couldn't sleep any other way. DS was obviously struggling due to the tt. They were each in a cot right by my bed. It's said to be an absolute no-no I know, but that is what I did.

My Mum put all of us on our side because she thought on tummy looked dangerous even though they were recommending it at the time. She used a blanket ot prop up as others have said.

Interesting, Wotmania. I reckon I must have the capacity of a Holstein Friesian as I get the impression I can hold 250ml!

So he slept for about three hours on his front but woke when dh turned him onto side. I took him in with me then, kept him on sheet, no duvet or blanket with arm around him... got so much more sleep-until nappy leaked at 5am. Looking at him, he actually gets red faced and fussy well into the feed so hardly over supply? But instead of swapping over I have left him on and he seems to csalm and settle shortly after. I do notice a good bit of milk flowing from the opposite side when feeding on side but think that's normal enough at this stage? villainousbroodmare my ds1 used to go 3-4 hours between feeds from birth so it can just happen.

True oversupply is actually quite rare.

I've only ever leaked from one side occasionally, even with feeding twins so there is a LOT of milk flowing.

Great news that you got more sleep. I'm co-sleeping with my fussier little twin because it's the only way I get proper rest.

The other guy is a baby from a book - he sleeps 8-10 hours in a row (they're almost 19 weeks) and his version of the 4 month sleep regression is to wake once overnight for a polite feed and a roll around in his cot.

They're all so different!

I also read this about breastfeeding yesterday - breastfeeding is not linear, it goes up and down and also in circles I thought it was a nice thing to think about when everything goes tits up (excuse the pun)

Haven't read all replies as both ds are warring (all day). For mine both hated sleeping on their backs so during the day I would put them down on their side or fronts, so basically whenever I was awake they weren't on their backs. At night I used to wake for feed and latch on just at waking point so they were v relaxed feeding which meant they fell back asleep easier often with little or no wind so would be comfortable (ish) on their backs. I did find fennel tea great for wind but maybe it's not working for you. I used a soother on both, the paed doc told me to on ds1 while still in hosp (was in for 10 days) and I found that it helped as he would relax with it and it relaxed him enough to get wind up. Never affected feeding on either. Also gave both cooled water too as well. Not much and between feeds. Didn't affect feeding either. Hope you find something that works for you, and that's what's important what works for you not what anyone else thinks you should be doing. I don't mean MN advice I mean the people in your life who sometimes helpfully suggest you are not doing it right. If it works for you and your baby it's the right thing to do.

It took many trips for me to get dd's TT diagnosed. Had to get a specialist to check and she diagnosed it (and showed me!)

DD slept on her side right next to me.

I did tummy sleeping from about 4 weeks old. Up until then my little boy barely slept and as soon as I put him tummy down he got a good 4/5 hours. I used an angelcare monitor just to be on the safe side re breathing but he was a different child after that. So settled, well rested. The health visitor wasn't pleased but she wasn't up with all day and all night. Just to what you think is right. I feel for you.x

Here's the thing about SIDs. It had less than a percentage point of happening even before the "back to sleep" campaign launched. It's so incredibly rare, I wouldn't even worry about it. Just take care of obvious things like no blankets, soft toys, and have a firm mattress.

I know plenty of people that put their babies with reflux on their stomachs while they sleep so they don't choke on their own vomit. Their kids are fine and healthy. Obviously see a doctor about the baby if you can, but letting him sleep whatever way is best for him to sleep will make it smoother for everyone, including him.