To expect my employer to tell the truth

[Arkengarthdale]

Posting in here for traffic - I've also posted in employment issues topic.

I raised a grievance at work and it was not upheld. I subsequently discovered the investigating officer only investigated bits, not all of my complaint. He now says I did not raise the issues he chose to ignore, and the notes he provided of the investigation meeting do not record the entire meeting (they've been - ahem- 'sanitised' ie falsified). There were two other people in attendance at the meeting but they have both now left the company so cannot corroborate.

Interviews with colleagues contain many lies and denials of issues I have complained about.

Do I just fold my tent and let them get away with disgraceful unprofessional behaviour? What would you do? I feel like it's just me against a huge organisation which just closes ranks and lies to cover up poor management.

I'm a truthful person and it hurts enormously that people I trusted now stab me in the back. Alternative employment at my level is extremely difficult to find round here.

AIBU to take this further, knowing deep in my soul that I am telling the truth and they are lying?

Who would you take it further to?
Is this easy to do?
Do you think that anybody higher up would actually do anything?

If yes, then probably.

If not, then it will probably be a waste of your time.

Can you re-issue the original complaint again?
As an email, so you have written records of all the questions...

It's cost me my job, although nobody has ever told me I've done anything wrong.

It's just a shitty situation and I want justice

Do you belong to a trade union? If not, join Unite today and take advantage of their free legal advice service for employment issues in a month's time.

Thanks goddess. I am in a union but my rep retired and I only met the new one once before the hearing - the old one had gone through everything with me. ACAS recommend I get her old notes...

Did you hand your notice in or were you sacked/made redundant?

It could be that you have a claim for constructive or unfair dismissal.

How did a grievance result in you losing your job? Were you terminated as a result of the grievance, or did you quit?

Would the further action be an appeal, or legal action?

What result would you be hoping for? It does not sound like you have a good working relationship now so I don't think getting your job back sounds realistic.

It is one thing to know that they are lying and to be hurt by that, but it's quite another to be able to prove that they are lying and actually achieve something, and you risk further hurt and reputational damage if you drag this out and don't get the answer that you achieve.

It's difficult to advise on so few details, though.

Have you spoken to ACAS?

They provide FREE advice: www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

Can you, without outing yourself, give us an overview? Can you, somehow, contact the people who were in the meeting? LinkedIn, social media etc?
How did you submit the original grievance? How has you submitting a grievance resulted in you losing your job? Were you dismissed? If so, what for?
Sorry for all the questions, it just helps to have a little knowledge of what happened, chain of events and so on.

They've decided my old job was too stressful for me to go back to (although the only problem I had with it was that we were so short staffed that I was doing more than one person's work for nearly two years, resulting in work-related stress sickness absence). That's part of my grievance.

They've offered me a part-time, lower grade job at an office double the distance away, alongside the manager who lied and his staff. Not appropriate, in my view. So still employed but nowhere to go.

It's going to be constructive dismissal, isn't it. The most difficult thing to prove and even more so when the powers that be will just lie and lie.

Bastards

Oh yes. ACAS said either get hold of the retired employee (who has moved back to the south coast) or give up. Spectacularly helpful!

I will not quit. I have been placed on the 'at risk' register so if they don't find anything suitable within three months my employment will be terminated. So far they have only offered demotion and part time.

My issue is the bare-faced lies, even when challenged the smug git denies I said anything. He maintains he has no recall of what was said and that as it isn't recorded in the notes it can't have happened (even though the second I got a copy of the notes I disputed their accuracy).

So far I have followed the company's grievance procedure to the letter, although they are trying to claim that I did not inform them of something in time (I did - the lying manager says he did not receive the email but I have a copy of it, and his response - ha!). The avenue left to me is an appeal, but it will be heard by most of the same people, even though the procedures are quite clear that it should be heard by someone completely unconnected with my department.

I have no trust at all in my employer. I am currently on 'garden' leave so do not have access to my files and my work emails.

Don't despair; it isn't that difficult to prove and many companies negotiate a settlement within a short time of it being made clear to them that they'll find themselves before a tribunal with its attendant large legal bill and the possibiity of adverse publicity and defeat.

Can you try to make contact with the people who have left? The big advantage of that is that they will presumably have nothing to lose by telling the truth.

Employment tribunal - definitely. At least your case will be heard by someone impartial. And the pages of evidence I'm sure you will have amassed can be reviewed.
Sounds likely you will come out of it well too.

The fourth person at the meeting was the lying manager's PA as note-taker so that's a no-no. She's also off work due to some horrid personal circumstances so uncontactable. I think this man has taken advantage of her being off to doctor the notes. Also, the company rushed to get a grievance hearing within two weeks of my union rep retiring after having doing nothing for four months!

I live in hope that telling the truth will win in the end.

Thanks for responses, everyone! It's interesting having other points of view when you're stuck like I feel I am not being able to work out what is right and what is wrong. Feel a bit 'gaslighted' to be honest. Who knew I was such a bad person? I was bullied by a colleague for months (this is the bit that was left out) and lots of people knew about it, but apparently the bully has accused me of bullying her and she has now been offered 'support'. So the statement in the file is of my bullying her and my complaint submitted a year previously is not recorded!

God, I read it back and it sounds completely unbelievable.

Every word is true, though. No wonder I feel confused and angry.

Ark, I am so sorry this is happening to you. Something similar happened to me. I took out a grievance, went through the official procedure etc. The notes were wrong. There were lies. Went throught the appeal. Notes also wrong for that. More lies. I am being very brief here and have name changed!

I too was shocked that an organisation could behave with dishonesty. Not only did the person I was complaining about lie, which I can understand I suppose, but the organisation was utterly dishonest. I still find it shocking.

I took it to an ET and they settled out of court.

Definitely a union matter. You will not be alone if this is as bad as you say.

Good for you RedHat! That's heartening in some ways, that they settled out of court, but the fact that you had to go through it all is just crap.

I'm not renowned for my confidence and self-esteem and am very easy to bully into submission but I'm so bloody angry at the lying and cheating. I even dream about my erstwhile colleagues standing up in court and telling the world I'm useless!

I do have RL help and support but sometimes the views and experience of strangers helps. Thanks all

Was the only note taker someone allied to/working for the company? Don't notes of such meetings, much like minutes, have to be agreed by all parties as an accurate record? I would appeal stating inaccurate notes and not addressing a main issue re your grievance: and at the appeal ask if you can be accompanied (I am sure thats your right as an employee) and bring someone who can take notes. Iresign.com has free legal advice for exactly this sort of situation on its forum if you want another legal opinion. If you lose the appeal I would go to Tribunal tbh. Nothing to lose. You are already demoted etc.

Ark, also, in my experience you wouldbe right not to trust your employer. They will be trying to cover their own backs. I had stupidly always thought HR was there to offer impartiality and ensure good practice etc. Hollow laughter. I was so naieve.

Gaslighting is exactly how it felt to me too. That is exactly it.

Sorry for spellings

Sazzle - I have learnt never to attend a meeting without my union rep and now to record every meeting on my phone. I will check out that website, thank you.

RedHat, I think you are me HR are there to support management, not staff.

It was good they settled but they dragged it out as long as they possibly could. It was a nightmare.

I think it might be the case you have to pay a fee to go to an ET now. I didn't have to, but had legal representation which cost a fortune. I think that is one reason the employer dragged it out. Although you can represent yourself, I am glad I didn't try to do that.

I had a union rep but he wasn't very good.

It is v important to have an independent note taker at all meetings. If I was doing my thing again I would secretly record it all.

It is very difficult. It made me ill, actually. It might be more logical to just walk away from it all, tobe honest, but I completely identify with the burning need for the truth to be heard and acknowledged.

Sorry, x post.
I know

It has made me ill. I keep being referred to Occupational Health and they keep telling management to sort it out! They also say my condition is likely to be classed as a disability.

They asked if they could record the last meeting to which I agreed with gusto! I have asked for the tape from the meeting and it will be interesting to see if I ever get it.

Sazzle I think I will go to appeal and highlight all of the inaccuracies and inconsistencies.

Thanks chaps you've cheered me up! Loins are there to be girded, after all