To think at nearly 5 he should bloody know better?

[Lostandlostsomemore]

So son goes off to a summer camp type thing today, all outdoors, he's been before and really enjoys it.
Today there was a male teacher that he's never had before and at lunchtime he was made to sit alone away from all the other children after throwing his drink bottle at the male teacher :( It hit the man on the shoulder and was full of water so no doubt hurt.
When asked why he did it he replied that he wanted to make his new friends laugh.
He's always been quite physical, we've had to repeat over and over regarding throwing / hitting etc but he is a very active, dare I say it, boisterous boy and clearly finds it hard to reign it in but we've never had anything directed at a teacher before :-( so embarrassed.

Just wondering if he finds it difficult to make friends and feels he has to act the clown in order to be popular?
Do other children egg him on but he takes the flack, or was it a spontaneous act? Often funny children (and adults) are inwardly very insecure and seeking approval ime.

Perhaps you ought to talk to your child about not copying others' behaviour, that even if something is genuinely funny the first time, it won't necessarily be the second.

For a small child's point of view- boy throws yoghurt, hits teacher, everyone laughs, boy not (visibly) in trouble (presumably it was dealt with but in a different way that might not be obvious to a 4 year old casual observer)
Do DS throws water, hits teacher, he expects everyone to laugh, teacher not to be hurt, and to not be in trouble.

Nonna I don't think that's really likely to apply to such a young child - in a couple of years yes maybe, but he's still 4, even if nearly 5...

Eh, I was joking around with my brother, threw a water bottle at him to be a smart ass and accidentally gave him a bloody nose. I deliberately threw the bottle, I didn't deliberately hurt him.

It was probably a similar situation with your son. Except he's a child, and presumably sober.

I wonder, like a pp said, did he simply mean to throw the bottle but not aiming at teacher and/or were there general high spirits in the grouo including the teacher prior to this and he just lost the run of himself? His reaction speaks loudly I think so I wouldn't worry too much, he has been punished and spoken to by you.

No he's not an insecure child, very secure and not generally needy of friends at all, happy to play alone or with people but not reliant in any way on them. Even groups of friends we've had for a long time he can almost take or leave. I can't explain how logical he is, but for his age he is very much so and even when talking tonight about it he has said things like but he is much bigger than me and the bottle I don't get why that hurt, he is a grown man why would he be sad over something a child did and even when I had to think about what I had done I thought I wonder if he would throw something back at me but he can't because he is an adult. He is like the other poster said, very rarely upset, handles pain very well and even if he is hurt prefers to deal with it alone ( not a run to mummy and hug and make it better type kid ) and I do think he finds it very hard to grasp why everyone isn't the same. He will often say to his sister I don't understand why you always cry about things, not getting own way etc as he rarely does. It takes a lot to upset him.
I can see how he just got caught up and carried away, I just don't want this to be a pattern of behaving badly as people think he's funny

Well there's your answer. He threw it not expecting it to hurt or upset anyone.

If he is this logical I might avoid the word sad and use more accurate words like "he was frustrated because he didn't feel like you were respecting him, his job is to keep everyone safe and to do that he needs people to listen to him". Sad is too vague and brings an image of tears which, presuming they are mentally stable, adults don't feel if a child throws a bottle. They'd feel irritated.

I dunno. He sounds intelligent with his reasoning. Maybe more complex explanations are in order.

I think you're right.
Maybe I'm watering things down too much with the " let's be kind " " he felt sad " stuff all the time. I just try Not to speak about anger as he's already switched onto that emotion so I guess I've been trying to build some empathy!
Thanks for your reply, means a lot

I agree that our DC sound similar. I found naming emotions correctly VERY useful. Not 'sad' but grumpy or frustrated. I knew it was working when one day I asked if she was feeling angry and she said, "NO, frustrated and disappointed".

I think the punishment was way too harsh. I have a 4 year old boy. He does silly things. He's still learning. If your son was crying already why exclude him and make him feel like shit during lunchtime too? Poor guy. Give him a hug and tell him it's not the end of the world cos it isn't.

I wouldn't attach any deep underlying reason to it like security or confidence either. His thought process was more likely to be 'it would be funny' and nothing more.
If he's logical, I'd discuss it in terms of what it would be like if everyone did things they wanted and found funny, and try and find something he would mind being on the receiving end of. Eg if another child found it funny to jump on his painstakingly built Lego model, or his teacher found it funny to rip up his picture, or another dc found it fun to let his bike tyres down etc, all done on the basis they wouldn't mind if it happened to them. And how big boys and girls have to learn that other people can be upset by things that don't bother us because everyone is different. And that big boys and girls need to think through what might happen before doing things.

I don't think children who are 'jokers' are lacking in confidence anymore than those
who don't! It is just different personalities.
I do think that those entertainers need to learn that others are not wrong in not enjoying it though. It isn't okay to dominate, just because a child is more 'robust'.
op l wouldn't worry, l think he just momentarily slipped up. All kids do, some just not quite so obviously.

I wouldn't go with sad - when a water bottle is pitched at you it bloody hurts!

'We don't throw things because they can hurt other people. You threw a bottle at your teacher and it probably hurt him, so he was cross with you.'

It is OK for adults to be angry at children imo (as long as they show it proportionately, of course!). I wouldn't pussy-foot around 'angry' as a general rule.

My husband also thinks the punishment was too hard but I think and know my son does need quite a stern telling when misbehaving or else he will just escalate it and gets worse and worse.
He can be such a kind boy, worms he will make houses for and look after for weeks but he can see someone fall other and cry and can't seem to control laughing.
Maybe we need to be more honest with him and stop using " sad " all the time as he doesn't mind that concept so a little pointless!

I don't think you need worry too much.

Your son is impulsive and does stupid things,but not with malice aforethought; he gets punished and can appreciate why.
You uphold the discipline meted out to him without making excuses for his behaviour, but at the same time are concerned, caring and most importantly, consistent. He is learning silly behaviour can have unpleasant consequences.

If only more parents were as sensible as you.

Thankyou, I am trying my very best.
I love him so much but can see he isn't perfect, neither am I or anyone I know but just want him to not spend his life being told off at school etc!

He's 4! Practically still a toddler.

You will look back in 7/8 years and realise you were expecting so much and he was still so little.

It really is still very little.

They dealt with it and moved on. Done. Dusted.

just want him to not spend his life being told off at school etc! I have to steer a very fine line between spending all my time managing DD's behaviours so that she is 'good' grr and letting her be herself. She's never going to be the quiet, biddable, timid child and part of why her behaviour improved massively was me acknowledging that she is wonderful and special BECAUSE she isn't like all the 'nice' children. She's her; big and and happy.

Yesterday one of the parents at Summer Camp told me she loves my daughter because invariably she is the only child dirtier than her son coming out. She was covered in pavement chalk at the time.

I don't have anything helpful to add but may I say, you sound like a lovely mum lost.

He's 5, and at that age his ability to override impulses is minimal.. Yes he may know better, but that doesn't mean he has the capacity to put the brakes on when he needs to. This requires the very complex involvement of his frontal lobes which unfortunately won't be fully in place until he's in his mod twenties.... Yikes. Better get used to him making a few mistakes! Sorry not read through all the answers but just wanted you to know that there is a physical and neurological reason for this behaviour, it's not a character flaw or a failure on his part.

Mine's just 4 and mostly does this to his DSis. I've no idea how to tackle it and am watching for replies.

Thanks ever so much, that is extremely handy to be aware of
I watched him today with a friend of his the same age and they are so alike it's uncanny, they both need no spurring on or encouragement to get carried away, the difference is how we handle it as parents as she ignored most of it.
He has asked today to go back to summer camp in the next holidays and without prompting said he should really say sorry to he man he upset so that's a good step for him and generally he forgets almost straight away!