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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The bedroom tax

248 replies

jonicomelately · 23/08/2015 16:28

How can anyone support a Government who inflict this on people? There are no words...

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/brutality-bedroom-tax-exposed-disgraceful-9911421

OP posts:
Desertedislander · 23/08/2015 18:51

Heartbreaking

Iamnotloobrushphobic · 23/08/2015 18:52

What about this guy's wife? Why doesn't she have a job

Didn't the article say that they were splitting the care between them as round the clock care is required? It's a few hours since I read the article do I could be wrong. Just because only one person can be registered for carers allowance it doesn't always mean that only one person is providing substantial levels of care. If the disabled man was in full time residential care he would need more than one carer to cover a 24 hour period (in some cases where 2:1 care is required the person would need a minimum of 4 care staff to cover a 24 hour period and that is working 12 hour shifts each).

I think some people don't really comprehend the level of care required in some cases and the fact that it is really difficult for one person to provide it all on their own on a daily basis.

IHaveBrilloHair · 23/08/2015 18:56

I have to pay it, I have a chronic illness / disability and when I got my HA property was entitled to three bedrooms.
Then they said I wasn't so I asked to swap to a two bed, and they said I can't as I need a three bed, but still have to pay it.
You couldn't make it up.

HelenaDove · 23/08/2015 18:56

Redux for people WORKING as paid care workers there are certain health and safety rules they have to abide by.

This man is profoundly disabled and if he had no family he would have MORE than one PAID CARE WORKER attending to his needs.

So why shouldnt it be the same with family carers

serin · 23/08/2015 19:22

People with disabilities (that require substantially adapted properties) should of course be exempt from this tax.

However I am shocked that his family would release a naked picture of him, presumably the poor guy can't give informed consent? It is also misleading (since he is no longer living in that property). Why his family and the newspaper should publish that now is surely just sensationalising the story.

Alfieisnoisy · 23/08/2015 19:27

Sometimes it takes shocking pictures to get the public thinking and reacting. This cut is immoral, especially given that the property is now being occupied by an elderly couple exempt from the cut. Appalling and wrong.

Georgethesecond · 23/08/2015 19:34

Is the housing benefit not reduced for people over retirement age then? I hadn't appreciated that. That is very cynical, and I think wrong. Except they wouldn't be able to get any smaller properties round here (another Northen city) if the reduction did apply, as there is a terrible shortage of them. Hmmmm.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 23/08/2015 19:40

How can anyone support a government who inflicts this on people is beyond me
.There are no words.
Fully agree but sadly there are many people who support them, after all who triumphed in the election
Can we just please have some recognition though that it is not just the disabled who are suffering under this despicable government. Plenty of able bodied are just as financially vulnerable.

Iamnotloobrushphobic · 23/08/2015 19:49

Plenty of able bodied are financially vulnerable but i do think that a person who already has additional challenges due to a disability is more impacted on by sanctions and cuts. An adult with the mental age of a four year old can obviously never gain employment or live independently and the current cuts are impacting on them both financially and through loss of social care services and accessible leisure facilities.

ChickenTikkaMassala · 23/08/2015 19:52

The bedroom tax is awful.

Myself and my wife live in a one bedroom adapted HA bungalow, rarer than hens teeth. We would like to start a family so we found a two bedroom bungalow with suitable adaptions, the resident was desperate to swap with us as she was paying bedroom tax, however the HA refused the exchange because we would have been under occupying, despite the fact that we both work full time so we can afford it and we want to start a family. Now we have no choice but to start a family in a one bedroom property and the HA will then have to move us to a suitable adapted two bedroom property when we could have avoided this situation in the first place.

HelenaDove · 23/08/2015 19:55

serin they may no longer be living in that property but they shouldnt have been put through that in the first place. It should never have happened. And while it was happening its highly likely they would have been under too much stress and overloaded with paperwork as well as round the clock care to involve the press at that time.

Saying it doesnt matter because they are no longer living there is at best minimizing their experience and at worst hoping to pretend that situations like this never happen. And i dont mean you personally serin. I just mean that is where society seems to be at the moment.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 23/08/2015 19:57

Chicken That's crazy.

HelenaDove · 23/08/2015 20:01

Chicken thats nuts What is their problem?

ChickenTikkaMassala · 23/08/2015 20:04

I know LumpySpacedPrincess, I can't wrap my head around it. I physically can't do stairs etc so when the time comes the HA will have to relocate us to a two bedroom bungalow and it pisses me off because we found one that was excellent for us.

ChickenTikkaMassala · 23/08/2015 20:06

The problem is that until we have a child, we'd not be using the extra bedroom so we'd be classed as under occupying. Meanwhile the resident in the two bedroom property is getting into arrears most months as she can't afford her rent on top of her other bills.

ChickenTikkaMassala · 23/08/2015 20:09

Sorry I pressed post to soon.

So the mutual exchange would have benefited us all for different reasons but the HA basically flatly refused it after we submitted the forms. My wife rang the HA and the person she spoke to told her to get pregnant, then they'd sanction the move.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 23/08/2015 20:10

Ridiculous and illogical. Sad

NerrSnerr · 23/08/2015 20:10

To be honest, I can't see past the fact that the family consented to that picture being put on the article. If he has a mental age of 4 as it says up thread he probably can't consent himself and they talk about lack of dignity!!!

MaryPoppinsPenguins · 23/08/2015 20:21

Apologies if this is an incorrect statistic but a quick Google tells me that 15% of people affected by the bedroom tax are affected by disabilities, which leaves 85% where
the choice to move able bodied people to a smaller property frees up much needed properties for overcrowded and even homeless families.

There are always exceptions, but it seems like a logical rule to me.

MoonriseKingdom · 23/08/2015 21:09

This seems so ridiculously short sighted

  1. The council had spent £70k adapting this house - unless they had an already adapted place for the family to move into plus a suitably sized family needing the adaption they were wasting money.
  2. The cost to the state to provide round the clock care to this man would be huge. Full time family carers such as these, save the state a fortune. We really need to value the work these people do and help them to carry on doing so.
jonicomelately · 23/08/2015 22:03

i'm sure the family thought long and hard about whether to release the photograph.

OP posts:
longtimelurker101 · 23/08/2015 22:15

The lack of empathy on mumsnet, as always, is stupefying and the profound misunderstanding about what is actually going on is mystifying.

The under-occupancy rules mean that only social housing tenants are required to move or pay more. In many cases, as there is a lack of social housing, they end up in the private sector and receive more in H.B than they would have been using in social housing with its protected rents. Thus public money is paid into private hands and the expenditure actually rises.

The misery that is being inflicted on individuals as part of a political ideology is extremely unfair. This is not about deficit reduction, as in the end it doesn't actually save money. In fact many of the budget cuts aren't really about deficit reduction, if the government were really about that they wouldn't be cutting taxes for the wealthiest and for corporations, they may have looked at means testing benefits for the retired.

But no they will hit the poor and vulnerable, and many people will encourage them, spurred on by the media who misinform and pull the debate in the way that suits their own interests.

The facts, as I've oft repeated, show that cutting benefits does not cut the deficit, but believe what you like, and sit comfortable in your own home congratulating yourself on how your hard work is rewarded, when much of it really is down to good fortune.

"As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome." Noam Chomsky

HelenaDove · 23/08/2015 22:31

Neersneer a lot of people see only what they want to see so dont worry because you arent alone.

The HA and other organisations involved didnt exactly have his dignity very high up on their list and im sure the family agonized over whether to do this. Very likely after reaching the end of their tether. Your post is very close to victim blaming.

AndNowItsSeven · 23/08/2015 22:43

Mary poppins it is illogical because in the majority of cases there are no suitable smaller properties to move to.
Also like pp said a HA 3 bed would be cheaper than a private 2 bed. There is no money being saved by this policy and it is costing more in HB not less.
Only the naive would believe that the bedroom tax was a policy devised to save money or reduce overcrowding.

Oldsu · 23/08/2015 22:44

Alfieisnoisy how do you know that the elderly couple are not themselves disabled and need the adaptions, how do you know they are not paying the full rent themselves, therefore not claiming HB and not affected by the Bedroom tax, in fact if they both get a pension they may not be entitled to HB.

My dad is 84 and has only this year been claiming housing benefit due to having to give up work last year (after working for 70 years) before that he was paying his rent in full.

He had to give up work due to the fact that he needs a hip replacement and he cant have as he has a heart condition so he is now DISABLED, not as disabled as the man in the article but disabled none the less

In fact many pensioners are disabled due to old age, illness and infirmity, so if we all agree (and I hope we do) that disabled people should be exempt from the BT then we have also agree that that includes a lot of pensioners.

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