Overlooked for promotion because I'm pregnant

[NotAWhaleOmeletteInSight]

Very long time poster with a new username as I couldn't get my password reset to work.

I'm on holiday at the moment but back at work in a week. I've been with my organisation for 10 years and am very experienced in my field. I have an excellent track record and performance management history etc. A couple of years ago my manager was talking about my career progression and where I could be in a year or 2, if I wanted.

Immediately after this conversation I became pregnant and now have a 1 year old. I'm back at work part time.

A role came up recently that would have been a step up for me and which I could have job shared part time. It's the sort of thing that comes up very very rarely. I expressed an interest and presented a case about how I could do it with a colleague (who also expressed an interest) as a job share. We're both part time. Management seemed very positive. A week later I found out I was pregnant again and let my boss know. I said I intended to come back again and that I was still interested in the role.

I then found out a few weeks ago that a new starter has been given the role. This was just casually announced in the morning meeting for all staff. He'll be full time. He's got 3 years experience and a similar track record to me, only less of it obviously.

Am I being unreasonable to feel overlooked because of being pregnant? I've always intended to keep working and kept in touch on my previous maternity leave. I've worked really hard for years and until my first pregnancy I felt that my career was taken seriously.

Now it's like I've hit a glass ceiling. I like the new starter and think he'll be good in the role, but I don't like how it was handled. Should I ask for an explanation when I get back or just let it go? Feel free to tell me to get a grip!

At the school i work at any positions of responsibilty have to be full time. They always turn down job share and part time....

They could've asked you if you'd do it full time, if your seniority made you the more obvious candidate (whether you would or not is beside the point).

I'm getting more angry on your behalf the more I think about it! You should definitely ask fir feedback at the very least.

Yes - I expressed an interest in the role and then a week or so later found out that I was unexpectedly (but happily) pregnant, and then I heard nothing more. I told my boss about the pregnancy as a courtesy as we've always had a good relationship. I also told the proposed job share colleague as we're pretty close. I didn't tell anyone else as it was very early days.

It's true that job shares are increasingly common in education settings, and we have a few at mine, although not in Hot roles.

The more I think about it the more I'm sure it's because I'm pregnant.

*HoD roles, not Hot roles!

Tbh I wouldn't have told them I was pregnant. Sounds like they wanted someone settled into the role and who was going to stay. Prob they would have made job share work but adding maternity leave in probably made it more akward than they could deal with

Unfortunately although it shouldn't happen pregnancy does put people off promoting and a more cynical person in your position would have postponed giving their boss that information.

Yes - I expressed an interest in the role

What did they say when you expressed an interest though.

I do think it is a bit telling that the job shares in your school aren't HoD roles. I still think this may have been a step too far for them.

When I expressed an interest they were very interested and positive. I've worked closely with the proposed job share partner before. She's got a similar track record to me, only a couple of years less. We've not job shared before, but we've completed big projects together and been successful. We'd be a good match.

I might have a quiet word first with another HoD who might be more in the know and see what she thinks. Hmmm.

I have had a similar thing happen with a specific project / development opportunity. Those chosen were FT males and no PT females despite the ladies being better qualified and highly suitable. It stinks of glass ceiling. I complained but there was just a raft of denials

I expressed an interest in the role

I take it from this that you applied for the role?

Pregnancy discrimination happens all the time and there is quite frankly nothing you can do about it.

Working pt will also not help (although this is still illegal indirect discrimination).

If you tell them you will go back ft would they consider making this new person temp and giving it to you when you return?

would they consider making this new person temp

If a company that that had given me a job role did this I would be kicking up such a stink.

I am on an SLT and on maternity leave at the moment.

It is hard for schools. If they allow job sharing, they are then put in the position of having to offer the full time post to the other person if ne of the people leaves. The other person might not have done a great job. Evn if they don't want the post but want to keep their bit of the jobshare, the school is then stuck with a jobshare and having to find someone of the right quaility, who can work with that person and who wants to jobshare.

It is difficult with part- time teachers and promoted posts. They expect to have whole days of their choice off which means a timetable has to work around them. Then they expect everything else to accomodate them: staff meetings, CPD meetings, dept meetings etc. They expect to teach the classes they want to teach.

We have teachers whose days off cover every day of the week.

So, they want to teach Y11 Geog, Y11Maths, Post-16 Maths, Y11 English, Y11 PE, Post-16 English etc

That means:
English teacher does not work Monday - no Y11 English can be timetabled on Monday.
Maths teacher does not work Friday- no Y11 Maths can be taught on a Friday.
Both of these subjects have 5 periods a week in Y11 so children have to have two lessons on another day which we find does not produce good outcomes. It means all other staff have to teach that timetable too.
We decided it meant the part-time staff could not teach Y11. They went to their unions nd complained. Unions said it would compromise them professionally to not teach Y11. So we compromise for children instead.
But having had DS I would love to work part-time but I know that every day in our school the timetable is compromised by accomodating teachers who have asked to go part-time.

It does not matter which night we hold CPD, meetings etc, some of them miss them because they do not work that day. We are expected then to provide them with 'access' to that information/ training because they should not be disadvantaged. That means someone else either spends their time repeating training or spends their time writing up stuff for them so they can use it if they wish.

In one dept both the Head and second in dept work 3 days a week - were appointed when full-time,then asked to change to part-time. They have each had two one year maternityleaves in the last 4 years. They are only in school together on 1 day a week. They barely teach because we still have to give them their full management time and time to meet together. So out of 3 days they each actually only teach 2 and then both think they should teach Y11 so would like us to squash all the Y11 teaching into their two days. The dept results are really poor and it is beacuse the leadership of the department is poor and lacks cohesiveness.

On the other hand I have a friend who works part-time teaching MFL and her day off is spread over 3 days so she goes to work for two whole days and part of 3 days. It means she gets an afternoon off one day, starts an hour later on another day and goes home an hour early on a third. She hates it but the school would not accomodate anything else.

That sounds a nightmare to accommodate Lulu! Surely there comes a point when the school can say no to further requests for part time working if it's having a detrimental impact? Equally, is the dept head not held to account for the depts performance & therefore should be on some sort of performance improvement plan?

Not that any of this helps the Op, but I guess it could explain why they'd be less keen on a job share.

Have you actually applied for the role op? Expressing interest and them indicating interest for you is one thing, but there's nothing binding about it. If the role was ft originally would you have been willing and able to commit to it? If not, then on what basis do you feel upset about?

This is very unmumsnet of me but I dont think they were being unreasonable.

One ft person is nearly always better than job share and to offer someone a job when you know they will be off for 9months - 1year and have a option not to come back at all is not what's best for the business (or school in this case)

I'm glad we have laws to protect women against maternity discrimination but I think it's too skewed in favour of women (although this is the lesser evil than businesses having all the rights and women having none)

You are legally within your right to challenge it if you think your pregnancy has played a part in the decision, but I wouldn't as I think that the school has made the right decision for them and the children they will teach so think the decision on balance is fair.

Bit shit for you that the progression you hoped for isn't going to happen but surely you can see that by (willingly) having children you have put yourself in your position.

Again that's a bit shit for you but it's up for you and your do if you have one to compromise on these aspects of parenthood so you are not too negatively affected.

I'd also be prepared that the person who was hiring doesn't see you as the best candidate as you seem to see yourself. Have you been genuinely honest with yourself about that?

I expressed an interest and presented a case about how I could do it with a colleague (who also expressed an interest) as a job share.

Looking at this bit of your post again, if you and only you presented the case for a job share I would be concerned that the other person wasn't that bothered.

Funny language we use when talking about "falling" pregnant or "becoming" pregnant and then "discovering" I was pregnant. I mean, you did have sex, right? It doesn't just happen! Were you trying for a baby? Do you really think you are so amazing that your employers should work its personnel decisions round your reproductive activities, not once but twice? Sorry but it's YOU who isn't taking your career seriously - you went part time, after all, let's be honest here.

Sorry you did answer earlier that it was "unexpected", I didn't see that.

It is v hard but if a male colleague who was perfect for the job said I'd love it. I want to do a job share but I also have a 4 month/year sabbatical planned. I would expect him to be discounted for practical reasons

Ooh and I have a friend who twice came back from maternity leave to sit down with the boss and say she was pregnant and handing in her mat1b certificate
I can see why this tested her relationship with the company

Oneowlgirl- It is awful but everything we try is taken to unions. If we say no they go to unions and the union view is they will go to an emploment tribunal because it is possible- we could get another part-time member of staff to fill the days off so we are being discriminatory to women.

Interestingly, we have never, in my 14 years had a request from a man.
We are thinkng of not allowing anyone not full-time to apply for a Head/Second in dep/SLT post because of the difficulties it causes.

The ridiculous thing is we have twice accepted applications from part- time staff and both have resigned the promotion within a term as they have found it too demanding with a baby/small child. Yet they are unhappy that we are suggesting stopping this by advertising them as full-time only.

We recently had someone ask if we would consider them for a HOD post. She was a great teacher and full of ideas. Had been back a year from maternity leave. We said yes. She applied, got the job and within a mnth came and said she had changed her mind as she was 2 months pregnant and thought it would be too much for her. Not only that, she asked to go part-time. The Head said no as thete was no capacity in the dept and she has found a job in another school but has not told them she is pregnant. She will be turning up in September 5 months pregnant and asking to go on maternity leave from December. I imagine they will be furious but there is nothing they can do.

It drives me mad when women behave like this Schools are essentially decent employers and bound by all kinds of rules. It is children who suffer.

Think the issue could be you will be leaving for maybe a year in around 6-8 months time. So then they have to find someone else to fill the role again.

Rightly or wrongly, that would put me off if i was the boss.

We can't have it all unfortunately.