To mourn the loss of the word 'sitting' from English?

[UngratefulMoo]

No one seems to use it these days. It's all, 'I was sat there', 'She was sat down'.... well, no, unless you were forcibly put there or instructed to sit by someone else, I think you'll find you were 'sitting' there.

Where has the word sitting gone, and am I alone, or unreasonable in pining for it?

RedDaisy

I agree with what you say about being aware that how you speak has consequences.

But I like the fact that there are elements of the way I speak which reflect where I came from, but I am knowledgeable and adaptable enough to be able to choose how I say and write things.

Absolutely. I have never said everyone should speak in a particular way. Just that people understand how other think who might be hiring them for a job or considering them as a spouse.

Split infinitives make me wince and they do for many other people too although we all know plenty of people including some writers of grammar find them okay.

RedDaisy

Interestingly, my spouse (who met me at our RG University) married me despite my occasionally cockney lapses.

occasional not occasionally

Off to Google split infinitives

As I said, it's incredible how lazy we I can be. This past few months, I've made a conscious effort to clean up my usage of the English language. My DP speaks beautifully; he's helping me a lot by pointing out my errors. I appreciate you pointing out I've done something wrong there, Red; it enables me to correct it. Thank you.

So to correct my sentence, it'd be something along the lines of, "I used to get mixed up with "I" and "me" when saying "you and me", on a frequent basis."

Although I'm not sure that reads nicely. Maybe, "Previously, I have frequently mixed up the use of "I" and "me"...."

Maybe?! Argh.

One that crops up a lot here (London) is children missing out the preposition 'to'.

They say 'I went park' and 'Wanna go Westfield?'

The native English speakers don't tend to write this way, but children for whom English is not the first language pick up on this and do tend to take it into their writing. This also happens with mispronunciations such as 'fink' (think)

Yarp - that's really interesting as people in the North commonly speak that way. My DP is from London and he's adamant that missing our prepositions is absolutely not the case in London. He said it sounds alien when he hears somebody speak that way.

A lot of people in the North say things like, "I'm going to pub," missing out "the".

I'm also learning how frowned upon it is to end a sentence with a preposition.

Oh, and the correct use of who and whom!

Agree it's a northern thing. Why shouldn't the northern variant become the default for a change?

ShitHappens

Maybe it's particular to this bit of (East) London. I've become aware of it only in the last few years.

In fact, I am now wondering whether it might have actually arisen from non-native English speakers missing out the preposition because it's not used in their hope language and they've just done a direct translation. The accents of teens round here definitely has laments of Turkish, Bangladeshi, Jamaican, and 'posh' English. I wish I knew more about linguistics.

YANBU. I really dislike this turn of phrase.

I think this habit is prevalent only in the UK, perhaps only in England. Americans use the word "sitting" properly so you can't lay the blame for this one on the US, despite the tendency on MN to point fingers disapprovingly at the US when discussing any relatively new linguistic or cultural phenomenon!

But I try to be tolerant. I just assume that people who use 'sat' when they mean 'sitting,' or 'of' when they mean 'have,' are not very well educated. Or under-privileged, or not very bright.

Upthe, I like you very much, but I really hope you're joking.

People have been using language in ways that make poorly educated snobs clutch their pearls for centuries. There's nothing particularly awful about 'of' for 'have' that wasn't being done 600 years ago by writers we think of as dead posh.

I like the idea of 'I was sat' suggesting a bit of irritation, but I think that happens because it conjures up a certain kind of colloquial voice. If I here 'So, I was sat there on the bus ...' I know there's a story coming along. It's as illogical as 'Once upon a time' (what on earth does that phrase even mean?!), but it works.

I have also just read Call The Midwife, and there's an appendix about Cockney pronunciation and grammar. 'was sat' is listed in there.

What's fascinating about English is how rich it is - how informed by so many languages

I slightly resent snobbery about correct and incorrect grammar.

in my post of 14:42:18 I meant elements of Turkish etc, not "laments"

Yep. And the absence of 'to' usually goes with a glottal stop, which is Cockney too (and Yorkshire). I heard it was dying out, so it's nice if it's not.

Jeanne

I agree

"I'm going to pub," missing out "the".

It comes from "I'm going to t' pub". The "the" is abbreviated so you barely hear it.

I noticed in the Chinese School programme last week, the head of the English school said something like "I am stood in front of you all". It set my teeth on edge!! No, you're not, I shouted at the TV, you're standing!!

The Chinese teacher had a better grasp of English grammar than he did, I think!

I think YABU unless it's come from the US. Nothing against those in the US, but hearing Americanisms in the UK just shows people spend more time watching TV than interacting with their fellow citizens.

You can't blame this one on us. You would not hear this usage in the US.

I'm an English teacher of English in the U.S. I constantly battle with how much to stick to correct grammar. For example, "whom" is almost completely unused outside of legal documents. Do I use it? Do I teach how to use it? I'll be turning out groups of educated but twattish sounding youths.

Fortunately I was sat is not an issue. I don't allow prepositions at the end of a phrase or sentence, and I discourage split infinitive. Somewhat and gotten are, however, acceptable.

Now, where do we stand on singular pronouns when the sex or gender of a person is unknown.

80s

I think I am stood' sounds quite elegant, actually.

I think there should be more tolerance of non-standard forms of spoken English.

This article is quite good:
Non Standard English

That came up in a discussion where I work, kickass - what pronoun to use - and I don't think anyone said they'd penalise a student for using 'they' when the subject is singular, although several people didn't like it. We were marking exams in English.

Don't really see the issue with split infinitives.

Something that makes my teeth itch, because it's a stylistic device that creates all sorts of muddle, is when TV/radio historians use the Present Tense when describing something that a historical figure did.

Listen out for it, they do it all the time.

I don't hear it in Scotland either.

I resisted "they" for a long time, but, as a feminist, I really dislike "he" as the default, so I am beginning to tolerate "they." Sometimes I use "she or he."

I have no issue at all with split infinitives.