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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think these children shouldn't have had to suffer this for so bloody long?

50 replies

GayByrne · 17/08/2015 11:34

Genuine question for anyone who works in this field of child protection. I know the Govt have always been very keen that children remain in the family unit. But having read this this morning www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Horrific-squalid-filthy-home-suffering-Grimsby/story-27617842-detail/story.html

I struggle to see how these 5 children either slipped through the cracks or, worse, didn't and some board decided that the family could be 'saved'.

What does it take? This is a genuine non-arsey (but incredulous) question.

I worked as the pro-Bono children's advocate at my last firm, a million years ago. Have things changed so much, is it the area, is it cuts?

Will these children ever recover?

OP posts:
iggy155 · 17/08/2015 11:40

Horrific. Hopefully the children can recover and have a good life.

Birdsgottafly · 17/08/2015 11:53

Well, I was s CP SW and first started posting on here because of all the MYOB replies, to a poster describing abuse and severe neglect.

There was a post a few weeks ago were a toddler lived in a house similar to this one, the Mother had Hoarding and MH issues, yet the poster was told to not report. I and others went against the grain.

That's why children live like this, because Child Abusebis ignored and minimised.

I don't understand why, perfectly reasonable posters seem to think that Mothers are Gods, who can put their children through hell.

Perhaps it's a fear, about their own Status, I don't get it at all.

midnightvelvetPart2 · 17/08/2015 12:14

I agree that members of the public should report when they have a reason to do so.

However why did the school not notice? Surely a child crawling with fleas & malnourished would be noticed & the school able to act upon their suspicions?!

CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 17/08/2015 12:21

I don't know how no one got involved until things had got to such a bad state, those poor children Sad

I'm an adoptive mother, and the number of times I have seen pp go on about emotional abuse not being grounds to remove children from their parents... Angry I will remember to point them towards this story in the future.

VerityWaves · 17/08/2015 12:22

No one wants to get involved if the children are still " alive" they think the parents are " doing their best".

3CheekyLittleMonkeys · 17/08/2015 12:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

frumpet · 17/08/2015 12:30

I think often people assume that a filthy home described by a poster is one that hasn't had a good clean for a week or so , very few people have had the misfortune to live in the sort of conditions described or can imagine anyone's home getting to that point .

coffeeisnectar · 17/08/2015 12:32

Those poor kids. The oldest one saved her school lunch to feed the youngest at night. What 15 year old has to do that?

Bloody awful.

wickedlazy · 17/08/2015 12:32

I just dry heaved at that picture. Makes me want to go and scrub my house. How can people live like this, never mind letting children?

Excrement in the rooms?!

wickedlazy · 17/08/2015 12:35

Terrible for the children. I hope the sibling will be allowed to keep in contact, they've probably only had each other for a long time. Living in putrid filfth with no food. Imagine school uniforms would have been minging, and children dirty, how did schools not pick up on it?

tiggytape · 17/08/2015 12:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flanjabelle · 17/08/2015 12:39

If there was no food and the oldest one was starving herself to feed the youngest ones, how exactly was this not in any way physical? They must be malnourished!!

tiggytape · 17/08/2015 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MischiefInTheWind · 17/08/2015 12:47

I agree Birds, I've never understood why the adults wants and 'keeping the family together' are prioritised over the well-being, health and safety of children. No, I'm not blaming social workers, they are following the rules with little support and even less cash to deal with insane situations.
Keep the children in the home. Pay for a responsible adult to live in and be a carer? Fuck knows what the answer is, but letting parents treat children worse than animals is unacceptable.

LazyLohan · 17/08/2015 12:48

I agree with birds, often people become preoccupied with the parents needs that they forget the children. There was a thread on here a while back where a poster saw a child at school literally wearing rags. She asked the school if she could pass on some old trousers. And the school basically told her that even if she passed them on the mother didn't care enough to put them on him anyway.

I said she was neglecting the child and needed reporting. But the consensus on the thread was that I was being 'judgmental' and that it was obviously the fault of the government, not the mother who was just poor and didn't have the money to do any better. Which is clearly rubbish, because lots of families on the same income manage to clothe their children decently.

It could easily have been one of those children, or a child in a similar situation. And generally Mumsnet would tell you that it shouldn't be reported Hmm

wickedlazy · 17/08/2015 12:52

I feel for any teacher in that position, to know a child is so badly neglected, but surely then the problem lies with ss? At least the children were removed in this case before any fatalities. I have heard before about teachers taking pity on children but not reporting because they didn't think it was that bad. Obviously these days teachers are obligated to report any signs of neglect.

I don't understand the parents though. Did they ever ask for help? Did they really think the children would be better off living at home?

MischiefInTheWind · 17/08/2015 12:54

If you are poor, then how on earth do you let your pride get in the way of accepting clean, appropriate clothing for your children?
Second-hand stuff is mainstream now, not a mark of the workhouse.

tiggytape · 17/08/2015 12:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
GayByrne · 17/08/2015 12:58

Drink and drug addiction leads otherwise caring parents down a road where the end game is always getting your next drink/fix or the mey to pay for it.

When these parents have abdicated all responsibility and care of their children to, well, no one, it is society's responsibility (if there aren't any other family members, natch) to step in.

Not just hope and pray that it'll all be ok and we'll be able to keep the family together...

I've said it before on other threads, including one a PP mentioned, if you wouldn't allow YOUR child to live like that, why is it ok for someone else's to put up with a sub-standard way of life.

MN is very quick to defend these parents and MH issues are used as excuses all the time. Well, as a PP said - not everyone with depression lives in a shit smeared hell hole (eyes house, nervously)...bringing what can just be shit lazy parenting back to MH issues is lazy and rude and does nobody, esp the children, any favours.

OP posts:
DixieNormas · 17/08/2015 12:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

contractor6 · 17/08/2015 13:00

Soon to be new parent, the HV visited us and said we need minimal interference from them. However are there any checks to ensure this continues? PND can stop people caring? So it falls to society to ensure that potential abuse is reported. Maybe more needs to be done to ensure people know where to report suspected abuse too, a bit like the 101 number?

Original poster
GayByrne · 17/08/2015 13:01

Thank you Tiggy so interesting. And so difficult.

I'm just glad it isn't me whose desk these files land on...

OP posts:
MischiefInTheWind · 17/08/2015 13:02

It's also the hypocrisy I find hard to stomach.
That when society has turned a blind eye to children's needs; indifference and incompetence and unwillingness lead to dreadful consequences and all the masses do is look for someone to blame other than themselves.
Who shall we scapegoat? SW? Teachers?
Then it happens again and again and nothing significant changes.

Pipbin · 17/08/2015 13:08

If the youngest was 2, how recently has there been a health visitor involved?
I'm sure the school will have noticed but there is little they can do other than alert SS.

tomatodizzymum · 17/08/2015 13:13

I had a friend that lived like that, back in the 80's. At school she had dirty clothes and unwashed hair and always smelt of cigerettes. It wasn't until I went to her house that I realised how she was actually living (with an alcoholic father and drug addicted stepmother), there was a cat shit in the sink when I went to wash my hands and rats poo on her bed where she was sleeping every night. I went straight home and told my mum, it moved on very quickly from there and she was living with her mum within a matter of weeks (who actually had/has severe depression which was why she left them with their father, she had no idea what conditions they were living in). We are still friends, she has completely changed, married with children of her own and her house is large, spacious, clean and happy. Her siblings have fully recovered in similar ways. I don't think things have changed, I think far less children actually slip through than they did back then. It's just that every case is now reported, back then, it wasn't. If it had there wouldn't have been no room for anything else in the newspaper.

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