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Original poster

to not understand why adults find harry potter so good?

162 replies

Mindexplode · 17/08/2015 11:28

I never really got into harry potter but people told me I was missing out so I have watched all 7 films in the name of research

I still can't understand why it made it so big when there are better fantasy films and books aimed at the children and teenager market?

I certainly don't understand the attraction to adults, I found them very dull and formulaic

if you are a fan - what is it I'm not getting? if you compare them to narnia, or his dark materials, or hitchhikers guide or Asimov then there is no comparison. I much prefer Pratchett or Iain m banks or gainman

am I the wrong age - I was about 18 when the first book came out

OP posts:
EBearhug · 17/08/2015 13:16

You don't have to read them to your children. My mother refused to have anything to do with Narnia or LOTR, other than buying me books when requested for Christmas or birthday.

If a book is well written, it shouldn't matter if it was intended for adults or children - I still enjoy the Very Hungry Caterpillar, though it takes me about 5 minutes to get through it now my reading skills are a bit more advanced.

I was in my 20s when the first HP came out, and read the first one when I heard about it through word of mouth, before it all got really hyped up. I do think some of the later books could have done with tighter editing, though - it seemed to me that they didn't bother too much, because they knew they'd sell whatever. They are good stories, but fantasy just doesn't do it for some people, which is fine. Life would be very dull if we all liked the same thing.

maybebabybee · 17/08/2015 13:18

Not judging because they are choosing to read in general on the train but because they are opting to read a book aimed at people with a much lower IQ than themselves (i.e. children).

Still don't get your point. Why is this an issue.

FuzzyWizard · 17/08/2015 13:20

I have no opinion on 50 shades having not read it.
I have however read the Twilight series... Whilst I wouldn't sneer at people who like them I do think they contain some very worrying messages to young teenage girls and romanticise controlling and seriously fucking weird behaviour.
I wouldn't encourage the teenage girls I teach to read it, personally.
I have actually read them though, not just seen the movies.
Of course people can dislike Harry Potter but it's odd to me to criticise something you haven't actually read.
There are much better things for young girls to read than Twilight though... The Hunger Games, Malorie Blacknan and Chaos Walking stand out.

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 17/08/2015 13:22

Me neither, maybe Confused

NarrativeArc · 17/08/2015 13:30

It's part of my job to try to work out why some books are hugely popular.

And I've spent a lot of time considering HP.

I could write you an essayGrin. But I won't bore you.

So here are a few reasons;

  1. World building. JKR is a world class world builder. She imagines her world in precise detail ( there's an anecdote that the director was having trouble working out how the wall to Diagonally could work and JKR sent pictures she'd drawn when she wrote book 1).
  1. Characterisation. JKR spends as much time giving us side characters as she does her main ones.
  1. The friendship of the main three characters is an archetype. Think Luke Skywalker, Hans Solo and Princess Leia.
NarrativeArc · 17/08/2015 13:30

Obviously there's also the issue of, as a reader, being part of the zeitgeist.

Coffeemarkone · 17/08/2015 13:32

" JKR spends as much time giving us side characters as she does her main ones. "

Interesting.

but none of these are developed are they?

A friends son who was about 13 at the time told me 'the characters are all wrong'.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 17/08/2015 13:34

In fact, IQ doesn't change that much in most people from the age of 10 to adulthood, so that is a false argument.

hellsbellsmelons · 17/08/2015 13:34

I don't think it's your age either.
I'm the very wrong side of 45 and love the books and the films.
And I've been to the studio tour and I'd loved that.
All done for my DD though you understand!?

NarrativeArc · 17/08/2015 13:37

I think many a developed sufficiently for children's fiction. Hagrid, Dumbledore, Malfoy, the Weasley Twins etc etc etc. they are far more than just walk ons with back stories and sub plots of their own.

JKR always keeps us close to her threesome though. Doesn't allow that writerly tendency to 'se where characters lead'. She's always in control.

Teladi · 17/08/2015 13:37

I grew up with them and adore them. I am (and have always been) an avid reader and also adore some of the other books you mentioned, OP.

I still enjoy reading YA from time to time and frankly don't care if I look like a dick on the bus. Just because books are aimed at kids doesn't make them low brow - well, not all of them, in any case.

FuzzyWizard · 17/08/2015 13:39

Coffee- I disagree there are lots of fab side characters that are really well developed (compared to say the Hunger Games which I love but where a lot of the side characters are quite bland).
Hagrid, Dumbledore, Snape, McGonagall, the Weasleys, Slughorn, Umbridge, Rita Skeeter- all distinctive and feel like real people. I think Slughorn is particularly well written.

NarrativeArc · 17/08/2015 13:44

The fact that so many actors were prepared to jig their schedules to play minor characters is a testament to how well they were drawn .

Also the tee-shirts for sale. My DD wanted a Bellatrix one not Hermionr or Harry.

OrangeFluff · 17/08/2015 13:47

The problem here is that you are comparing the Harry Potter FILMS with other popular BOOKS. Have you seen the film versions of Hitchhikers Guide, Narnia or His Dark Materials (The Golden Compass I think it was called)? Because those films weren't that great either.

I've never really loved the HP films, they're OK, but the books are one of my favourites, and I've read them many times. I did grow up with them which helped, I was 12 when the first book came out. Although my Mum read them after me and is a huge fan too.

Don't judge a book if you haven't even read it!

maybebabybee · 17/08/2015 13:50

also disagree coffee. One of the reasons I love HP so much is because I feel JKR takes time and attention developing every last one of her characters, big and small.

FuzzyWizard · 17/08/2015 13:51

There are so many more now I think about it. Sirius, Lockhart, Ludo Bagman (cut from the movies), Luna, Fudge, Mundungus Fletcher, Kreacher. Even really minor characters like Stan Shunpike and Colin and Dennis Creevy jump off the page at you. Anyone who didn't cry at Colin dying has no soul. Grin

jellypi3 · 17/08/2015 13:56

yeah i find the minor characters make HP. The films didn't do them justice, they cut so many of the minor characters, but i'm re-reading HP currently (on Half Blood Prince) and there are so many nuances about the small characters I love. I agree other books have done it better, but then they tend not to be childrens books, but more adult books.

OrangeFluff · 17/08/2015 14:03

My favourite books were Azkaban and Half-Blood Prince. Mostly because I loved hearing about the Marauders and Snape. so I was gutted that so much back-story was missing from the films.

Bogeyface · 17/08/2015 14:09

Characters like Ginny lost out in the films.

In the books she is ballsy and outspoken, in the films she's a wet as a thunderstorm sandwich. The bit where Ron finds her snogging Dean and she flies at him, she totally (verbally) tears him a new one, but that doesnt happen in the film and is a great loss. She has an emotional maturity and understanding ahead of her years but again, you dont get that in the films.

The only book I do have a problem with is GoF. There were loads of ways that Harry could have sidestepped the tournament, supported Cedric and everyone would have been happy, but for some reason he didnt and no teacher suggested he did.....hmm.....

Bogeyface · 17/08/2015 14:09

Btw, love that video! the lord of the rings was....probably better :o

CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 17/08/2015 14:15

that's really interesting, NarrativeArc. I agree with your three points, but do find that JKR's prose is just so turgid! I've read most of the books, mostly because I wanted to see what the fuss was about, and found the narrative quite compelling (ie I wanted to keep reading to see what was going to happen) but I didn't enjoy the writing and sometimes really cringed at it.

Mind you, I could say the same about, say, Jeffrey Archer and he is also a multi-million selling author, so what do I know!

NarrativeArc · 17/08/2015 14:20

closer when you say 'writing ' what do you mean?

Her tone? Her style?

Because 'writing' must necessarily incorporate world building, characterisation, structure etc

Ragwort · 17/08/2015 14:24

I also just don't get either the books or the film, as Greythorne says, they are written for children - I love reading, but stick to books written for adults.

My DS didn't get the books either - wish he had been engrossed in them like so many children clearly were.

Actually I recently read one of JKR adult books and didn't think much of it either.

FuzzyWizard · 17/08/2015 14:24

I think I know what people mean about the writing. Even as a fan I sometimes get a bit tired by how often people say things "dully" or "coolly" and the overuse of "next day" rather than "the next day".

NarrativeArc · 17/08/2015 14:28

fuzzy I think people usually mean they don't like JKRs style or tone.

Which is fine. Very subjective things, style and tone Wink.

It's when people start bandying about the terms 'badly written' it makes my teeth itch. As clearly on any measure there is a level of skill that any of us would be proud of in the writing (which definition I use to mean far more than tone and style).