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AIBU?

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Original poster

Disgusted at the amount of people jealous of tube drivers pay

313 replies

Itsawd · 12/08/2015 18:35

They do a job dealing with the public, unsociable hours and god knows what when they get a jumper. We should congratulate them on doing well, not look at them with green eyes.

Its a free market so if anyone wants a job as one they are welcome to apply!

OP posts:
Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 22:25

Aslef have now said that they will not take further strike action at this time as management have agreed to look at sorting new rosters in collaboration with the unions and have delayed the start of night tube. The other three unions may not follow suit. It depends what the offer id for the other staff. Aslef only represent drivers so that is why they have agreed to suspend and strike action.

So if the strike goes ahead will we still be slagging off drivers, who will be at work? Or will we acknowledge that there are around 17,000 other members of staff on strike.

Once again, driver is advertised internally because it a promotional grade. In the past when drivers were recruited externally there was something like a 90% drop out rate after 1 year of the job. Most people either failed the course, got fired for making a safety critical mistake, or quit because they couldn't deal with the conditions. This is why they recruit internally

Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 22:27

Other cities with driverless trains have specially designed tunnels with access for evacuations. the tube does not have that, seeing as it was built by the Victorians.

Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 22:32

I am able to think for myself thank you. There are many people who are simply taking what is in the press as true.

I have no doubt that driverless will come eventually, but its not the fabulous money saving and strike averting thing it is billed as.
I have worked on an automatic line so know what it can (and cant) do. There was still a need for someone on the front.

makingmiracles · 12/08/2015 22:33

I totally agree about the comment about them holding London to ransom, hit the nail on the head there. £50k is a ridiculus amount of money for what they do without needing any qualifications (as is footballers etc, but that's another argument) I suspect most people could drive a tube train with a bit of training so why do they get paid so much? I do believe its because of this ability to hold London to ransom every time theyre not happy with their pay/hrs etc

perhaps Londoners should club together and boycott the tube, wonder how theyd cope with that if profits fell and wages fell as a direct result?!

Not an announce of sympathy im afraid and I think they are rapidly losing public support to due to their selfish actions

Binkybix · 12/08/2015 22:34

driver is advertised internally because it a promotional grade. In the past when drivers were recruited externally there was something like a 90% drop out rate after 1 year of the job. Most people either failed the course, got fired for making a safety critical mistake, or quit because they couldn't deal with the conditions. This is why they recruit internally

I wonder if this could be got around by better recruitment/training? F it was, presumably you'd be ok with that? Can you provide evidence for the 90% drop out rate?

What's the drop out rate for internal recruits?

Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 22:36

If the job is so easy and the pay is so great, why don't the complainers do it? I'm not saying its the most difficult job in the world, but it is not easy.

herethereandeverywhere · 12/08/2015 22:39
  1. I'm definitely not envious. I work 24 hours a week for £10k more.
  1. Not a class thing either. I'm a life long labour supporter from a Northern town who watched my father destroyed by the loss of manufacturing. There was nothing the unions could do despite their efforts. Working class roots but admittedly you couldn't class my current situation as that.
  1. Imagine if tesco workers (for example) had unions. Tesco bosses would be shitting themselves but I doubt the company would go bust. from upthread. Ok, lets do that:
- wake up late because the power cut from striking power plant workers means there's no electricity so the alarm didn't go off
  • try to get a shower - problem with the water but maintenance are on strike so it could be days before it's fixed
  • Tesco were closed for 48 hours due to strike action so the only thing in the cupboard to eat is dried cereal
  • walk the 8 mile trip to work (tube/bus/trains all on strike) and arrive to find i can't get in because the security staff are striking....
...do you get the picture?
  1. Tube drivers are taking the precious ability to withdraw labour to protect workers and making a mockery of the right - they are pissing all over the memory of the forefathers who fought for it. They are lazy, entitled chancers and think only of themselves. They are everything that is bad about extreme left-wing-ism. They are an embarrassment to my political party of choice.
  2. There needs to be a balance - rights of workers but progress too AND the rights of service users. We all seem to be slaves to the whim of the tube driver at present.
chippednailvarnish · 12/08/2015 22:41

If the job is so easy and the pay is so great, why don't the complainers do it?

I would if I could apply for it, but I can't because it is a closed shop.

puremuscle · 12/08/2015 22:41

Why would you assume that the public's objections are all because they are all jealous of the level of pay?

The pay is ridiculous compared to other people in similar lines of work. Holding London to ransom on a regular basis is exceptionally selfish.

themole- you say this isn't about the money so what is it about?

mumsneedwine · 12/08/2015 22:43

But I still don't get it ? Can anyone who is a driver explain why they can't recruit just night drivers. Then everyone happy ! I'd apply. I do have to laugh though at those who say everyone should earn £50k in London - someone has to pay for this !! Either consumers (eg hike in fares) or tax payers (hike in taxes). Money don't come from nowhere

Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 22:43

I don't have access to the evidence. The drop out rate is lower for internal applicants, I don't know the figures. Its thought to be because internal applicants have more of an understanding as to what the job entails, rather than the outside perspective. This could just be talk though. personally I have no problem with external applicants, but this could be because I have the job I want. If I was one of the station staff, waiting for my chance of promotion I might feel differently.

From personal experience some of the most obnoxious and incompetent managers I've encountered have been from the graduate scheme. People who have no idea of the basics of running a railway

puremuscle · 12/08/2015 22:44

I think many Londoners would apply for the job if it were actually advertised.

herethereandeverywhere · 12/08/2015 22:44

If the job is so easy and the pay is so great, why don't the complainers do it?

There are literally thousands of people very vocally saying, through many different media channels, that they would LOVE the chance of even applying for such a job but not one has been advertised in 7 years.

(read any twitter Facebook newspaper/TV news comments section on this subject!)

herethereandeverywhere · 12/08/2015 22:46

I'm betting they can't just employ night drivers because the union would be up in arms about their role being undermined or undercut and we'd have dozens more strike days as a result.

AmeliaNeedsHelp · 12/08/2015 22:46

I don't think it's fair that a person can sign a contract for a job with terms, conditions and pay clearly laid out then have the contact changed by their employer with no comeback. So good on the tube staff for standing up to such an abuse of power.

Chchchchanging · 12/08/2015 22:47

If they're unhappy then quit
Except the grass isn't greener
Many people would apply
The demand/ supply impacts the values, kept high if demand is supressedby routes to market

Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 22:48

Ive not met a single driver who objects to the hiring of night tube drivers, enabling us to keep our current framework. They have advertised for station staff (and are currently).

As I stated before it is about them effectively tearing up our framework agreement. Pushing through new rosters with no discussion which will considerably impact upon our family life.

To those who moan about the closed shop, why not join as station staff and work your way up. Like the majority of the rest of us had to.

Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 22:49

Yes everybody wants to be a driver. Nobody wants to work on the stations and apply for promotion.

chippednailvarnish · 12/08/2015 22:51

To those who moan about the closed shop, why not join as station staff and work your way up. Like the majority of the rest of us had to

Because by keeping it a closed shop, we continue to allow London to be held to ransom by a small group of people. Just because you trained that way doesn't mean it's right.

herethereandeverywhere · 12/08/2015 22:53

Themole very interesting anecdote but I bet tube bosses are prevented from employing a whole new set of staff for night shifts only because of the position of the union.

longfingernails · 12/08/2015 22:55

In what way does standing around talking, doing nothing, and ignoring customers at ticket barriers (i.e. typical station work) qualify someone to sit around doing nothing, occasionally rudely spouting insults at people who are squashed against the doors for having the temerity to be taking the Tube in the first place (i.e. typical driver work)?

Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 22:56

See, I think that a company actively promoting from within is a good thing. It was that way in every job I had before I worked on the underground.

Laquitar · 12/08/2015 22:59

YY KevinKnows @20.34.

And everything ' Bugger ' have said too. I don't understand the British mentality on strikes. Should we all shut up and accept nmw and compete about who works harder and 'i don't get lunch break-i'm better person than you' etc?

Themoleandcrew · 12/08/2015 23:02

Yes, that's exactly what station staff do. That's what I thought when I joined. In fact its one of the reasons I joined. That and the fact that I could strike all the time. Boy was I wrong. Working on the stations is a crap job, my personal highlight was being spat on by a 60-odd year old drunk prostitute because my colleague wouldn't allow her to travel in the state she was in. Or was it the 6 times I had to deal with a person under a train incident in two years. Or was it the time someone attempted to hit me with an iron bar because there was a signal failure.

Plus in 10 years ive only been on strike once before this dispute. I was looking forward to standing around chatting and striking all the time

chippednailvarnish · 12/08/2015 23:03

There's a big difference from "actively promoting from within" and maintaining a closed shop to keep a status quo of being able to blackmail Londoners.
Roll on driverless trains, I'll save my sympathy for the nurses who train for years for a much tougher job for a much lower salary.