To think if we eat and adopted some of the lifestyle of the europeans we would not be the fattest country in Europe.

[WonderWendy1]

I went on a med cruise two weeks ago we stopped in Portugal, Spain, South Of France and Italy.

I think of myself as a fairly fit size 12 (14 in some things). I would say i'm on the slimmer side in the Uk. I go to these european cities and the women (and men) are much slimmer then me and dh.

I was then in Paris for a few nights a week ago and I can only say my gosh nearly everywomen I saw had the legs of Taylor Swift.

Aibu to think we need to be doing what the europeans do to avoid becoming the American country of Europe.

Providing one article when neither of us (presumably) has done the wider research to put it into context is not particularly useful. Particularly when one of the specialists quoted in the article uses the phrase 'from a hard science point of view it may be a bit premature [to take action on the basis of the study]'.

Helena
From the actual source article
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1532-5415.2009.02677.x/full
The minimum mortality risk was found at a BMI of 26.6 kg/m2 (95% CI=25.7–27.5) in men and 26.26 kg/m2 (95% CI=25.5–26.9) in women

the minimum is at 26.26 .....

AND
since the article was published in 2010 there has been further meta analysis in other countries picking up the fact that men who lift weights can be overweight in BMI but have low body fat

check your body fat before saying that a high BMI is OK

As a foreigner, the thing which always amazes me is the amount of snack kids in the UK eat, you hardly see a child in a pushchair without a snack in his/her hand, from crisps, raisin boxes, dried fruit stuff, cheese strings, rice cakes, etc. It is like kids get accustomed to eat all the time. Probably to keep them quiet. The ranges of "kids snacks" and treats available in UK shops is astounding. Processed sugary fruit junk and mini youghurt pots, etc. Kid menues consisting of sausages and mash/chips, nuggets and mash/chips, compared to other countries where kids just get half a portion of whatever is available on the normal menu.

Instead of implementing a sugar tax surely the thing to do would be to bring the price of fruit veg etc down.

Talkin i think body fat checkers are what should be being used in slimming classes instead of scales for the reasons you mention. And i never said a high BMI was ok.

oh come on now Helena you know that wont butter any parsnips

name a theory, any theory you like, make one up if you want and I'll find a scientific study on the internet to back it up

TalkinPeace - But in that study, a lot of the thin people had other health issues.

No, the second sentence says, This is so even when factors such as smoking, alcohol use or lung disease are considered, or adults with a chronic or terminal illness are excluded, the study found.

I haven't seen any figures comparing athletes, dancers etc. with non-athletic thin people so I don't know about your second point. It may be the case that some exceptional people can maintain optimal health at such low BMI, although we know it affects female athletes' fertility, so ...

For the majority of people though, a BMI below 18.5 brings health risks.

HelenaDove That old man isn't still trying to lose more weight is he?

Helenadove
If weight loss classes told people how much of their body was fat

• eg my body fat adds up to 19kg and my BMI is 21 ..... the classes would be empty in a week.

Havent seen him for a while Pube. Last time was a couple of months back . The way he was moving and moving around while sitting down his joints seemed to be a bit stiff though that could be old age obvs.

I am half Belgian and by and large the Belgians eat well but only a small amount of the unhealthy foods are enjoyed not loads of it like over here! So they will eat them but in smaller portions ....

My friends in Scandinavia who are in their 60's do a lot of cycling.
Thing is its not done as a 'thing',iyswim.
I don't see many adults round about me just living a generally active life.
Perhaps they might go to pilates and the gym 3 times a week,but if every journey is made by car,so many opportunities to be active are missed.
Are we more under an American influence than the rest of Europe,because of our 'special relationship'?

Agree very much with FlowerPower, we have the money here to buy calorific foods and eat them in enormous quantities. If we followed the proper macro ratios, we wouldn't, veg would still be 50%+ of what we eat. Doesn't happen with McDo's though, does it?

plentyof what talkin said. Do you think all the ballet dancers/ jockeys/ athletes that come in under that can perform and train to that level in bad health? There is a huge difference between someone consuming the ideal amount of food they need to maintain a low bmi/ low body fat %, and somebody not eating enough for normal function. The Second is where the health problems come from. And you forget that Asians, who are a pretty large part of international population, tend to have lower bmi's than Caucasians etc. As someone who's bmi officially comes in as underweight, I've only ever been weighed by a hcp when pregnant. I'm healthy so me and most people like me aren't popping up in any stats.

helena I haven't mentioned men's clothes because when I go shopping they don't pop up on my radar much. However I do regularly notice that vanity sizing means many shops don't stock my size anymore. And that where the tall ranges used to be in shops, it's now the plus size range. Ditto buying clothes for dd. I get its clothing manufacturers catering to the market, but it grates my healthy size and height, one of which I don't wish to change and one I can't change, mean my clothes are harder to find and more expensive. If only one group has to suck that up, then sorry it shouldn't be the healthy size group that are penalised.

I agree Quint it makes me so angry, if a bored child had a games console shoved in their hand every time they moaned the parent would be slagged off or called out on lazy parenting, but when toddlers/ children are given raisins in the post office que then later rice cakes because it's time to leave the park and they need distracting to soften the blow of that, then there's more shit in the glove box for when they start moaning in the car it turns into a bad fucking joke at the expense of the child's future habits (and dental health) but no one ever says 'wtf??' to those parents because it's seemingly healthy food.
I was a nursery nurse until 2003 I have worked in 3 day nurseries in toddler rooms and all 3 had a 9:30am snack, which I thought was absolutely fair enough because some children would arrive at 7 and have breakfast straight away and some arrive at 7 having already had breakfast, the lunch trolly started rounds at 12 some rooms didn't get lunch until closer to 12:30 but the friends I keep from those same nurseries, that witnessed rooms of up to 16 two year olds go 3 hours between snack an lunch are the same people who now feed their dc on demand, unwrapping things while the kids whine and grizzle, they wouldn't even dare say 'well its snack in 15 minutes' they need to shut them up there and then.
My friend invited me and my ds (who she knows doesn't get snacks) round to play in her garden the other week, then she decided it was too cold for them to be outside (it wasn't that cold!) neither boy wanted to come in, so when she got them in grumpy instead of compensating by getting the paints out she declared it 'biscuit time' Convenience food isn't just being able to grab quick it's a convenience to use food to manage behaviour, compensate disappointment, occupy when bored, reward with when pleased....... There is no such thing as snack time anymore, it's out of control.

I agree Rabbit

And so often on Mumsnet the advice is to give kids a snack to keep them quiet or occupied.

"How can I keep my toddler quiet at a wedding?" = "Take lots of snacks OP"

"What can I do with my child in the swimming pool changing room, while I'm getting the baby dressed and dried?" = "Take some snacks to keep him busy"

"My child is a nightmare in the supermarket. I just can't get the shopping done without them kicking off" = "Do you bring snacks with you?"

"We have a long car journey at the weekend and my kids hate it" = "Oh some snacks should keep them busy"

None of that is made up btw ^^

Yet when you read some of the heartbreaking stories on here, from people who have struggled with their weight all their lives, the one thing many have in common is that they comfort eat and boredom eat.

So why can't people see that is exactly what they're encouraging the future generation to do?

I think it is a combinaion of poor diet and not being active enough. I am Swedish and people there just do more stuff, move more iyswim.
I think it is also becoming an income issue here in the uk. Crisps are more cheaper than fruit, not so in scandinavia. I had lived in the UK for five years before I realised that biscuits were dirt cheap! As a poor student I just walked past them assuming I couldnt afford them and had a shock when I realised they were 60p....

It is sad really as obesity is a health concern and no before you flame me, I am not typically Swedish diet wise anymore sadly. My diet is terrible at the moment, but I will sort it!

Lurked no one should have to suck it up and i say that as part of the healthy size group now.

And those kinds of attitudes leads to narratives like this.

agentofhistory.com/2015/08/11/this-is-what-our-newspapers-do-every-day/

Yes quint, exactly

Wasn't the 'This Girl Can' campaign started because British women are the least active in Europe. I'm sure that makes a big difference.

Plus the big portion sizes and maybe that wartime culture of 'eat your food up' that all the DC's grandparents have. My Mum and FIL in particular hate there being left overs, even when DH and I have pointed out we have deliberately made enough so there are leftovers for us to take to work the next day.

Lndnmummy ive seen value packs of biscuits for 20p.

Still behind by a few pages but just wanted to agree with the Delayed Gratification thing that was mentioned. I think that applies to many aspects of life. Like financial - getting into credit card debt/buying stuff on tick to have the latest whatever rather than saving up. Huge generalisation but as a society I think we are greedier and more impatient and not just for food. Same reason crash diet fads sell so well, we want to be thin NOW, we don't want to work for it. Hence we regain the weight and pile more on too.

DG is something I'm only just learning in relation to sweet stuff... at the ripe old age of 28 but I'm glad I'm working hard for it as the weight is starting to come off (in a slow, hopefully sustainable way).

On another topic, I saw that Fed Up documentary thing on youtube, and was really horrified when it said, IIRC, that they estimate that by 2050 1 in 3 people in the US will have diabetes. Terrifying that it's even a prediction let alone the thought of it actually possibly coming true.

I've read those too Warra at best it's lazy and unimaginative, but sometimes I see it as neglect if that's even possible to neglect whilst giving out stuff. It's a burden to saddle someone with a habit.
These dc are not just learning to stuff their faces all day, they are not learning to enjoy real food because they never sit down hungry enough, they are not learning table skills because they don't eat at the table and their emotional development is held back because they don't learn any real coping skills for disappointment, boredom etc.
My Mum use to do this and I have been known to be a massive boredom eater, it occurs to me sometimes that my kid is better than me at knowing what he's body is saying IYKWIM, when I say to him at mid day 'are you hungry now or later?' he will more often than not say 'hungry later' but by that time (about 3 hours after breakfast) he must have an empty stomach, I get the idea an empty stomach is normal and different to needing to eat now, but for me I actually cant always tell if I'm hungry or just empty, I listened to Paul McKenna I can make you slim once (years ago) and I just didn't understand it because he gets you to grade hunger and I don't think I had ever felt hunger properly to understand the question. I didn't eat as often as the now dc do as a child but I can only imagine them trying to understand the difference when they are constantly a level of freshly topped up. I think we need to feel full, empty and hungry to know what it really means to need to eat now.

I actually don't mind feeling hungry, so I don't panic and immediately try to rectify it.

I like to feel hungry for dinner for at least an hour beforehand, because then I enjoy it so much more. I'll also eat more too because I'm hungry, therefore I won't need/want to snack later.

But I'm guessing that if I was brought up with snacks offered to me all the time, or had a mother who always had snacks in her handbag 'just incase', then the feeling of hunger would be alien to me and rather unpleasant.

I have friends who say they feel 'shaky and dizzy' if they don't snack (despite having no apparent medical issues), and I can only assume it's because their bodies have no idea how to adjust to hunger. Interestingly those friends are all overweight.

Worra when i cut my portion sizes i had an awful colicky pain most nights which took five months to disappear. I took loads of painkillers (which didnt always work) and just gritted my teeth through it. I think it was my body adjusting to less food although i do get the same problems if i eat citrus fruit.

I have friends who say they feel 'shaky and dizzy' if they don't snack
(despite having no apparent medical issues), and I can only assume it's because their bodies have no idea how to adjust to hunger. Interestingly those friends are all overweight.
Wow you must know my Mum! I tell her it's all the low fat shit she eats because it's all full of sugar she must be crashing from it.