To think if we eat and adopted some of the lifestyle of the europeans we would not be the fattest country in Europe.

[WonderWendy1]

I went on a med cruise two weeks ago we stopped in Portugal, Spain, South Of France and Italy.

I think of myself as a fairly fit size 12 (14 in some things). I would say i'm on the slimmer side in the Uk. I go to these european cities and the women (and men) are much slimmer then me and dh.

I was then in Paris for a few nights a week ago and I can only say my gosh nearly everywomen I saw had the legs of Taylor Swift.

Aibu to think we need to be doing what the europeans do to avoid becoming the American country of Europe.

miggsie apparently Canada has also, and New Zealand is making progress as well.
As far as childhood obesity goes ,rates are starting to stabilise here ,which is an indication we're on the right lines.

Miggsie I actually went to school in Finland and I don't really recognise that at all. Tea full of butter?! Never heard of anything like that. Alcohol consumption yes, but you're talking about middle aged men who live in the country side. Alcohol is only sold in one specific chain of shops that has a monopoly on it, so it's impossible to pick up a bottle or two of wine with your food shopping.

There's definitely no snacking culture. There's a McDonald's and similar yes, but it's seen as a very occasional thing. Crisps only come in sharing bags and no one would even think of having any with lunch every day. School meals are free for everyone and good quality - think meatballs with potatoes and a side salad, with milk or water to drink.

I'm in my early 30s, when I was in school there were very few overweight children, and only one or two actually obese. Nothing like the schools here in the UK. Children mostly walk to schools because they live locally.

I knew some overweight and obese adults in Finland, but not nearly as many as in the UK. The older generation was very slim - my mum is now 72 and even as a UK size 8/10 I couldn't fit into the clothes she wore when she was 20-30. The waists especially are tiny, and dresses too tight around the bust.

Maybe the pendulum will naturally swing back in the other direction when we reach some kind of tipping point in the crisis?
When the burden of obesity on society gets to a certain point mechanisms which reverse the trend will automatically be triggered? ?

Should have added that while not everyone should or could be the size of twiggy, Keira knightley etc, holding them up as examples of too thin, and someone size 12/14 as slim, makes it much easier for someone size 16 to consider themselves slim, or an 18/20 to be just plump etc so people don't notice excess fat soon enough to make changes easily. And find it easier to give up along the way with phrases like 'size 8 is too thin, I was aiming for size 14 so 16 will do'.

I think it takes a massive initiative on a national level. The problem is a lot of British people seem to take a pride in their bad behaviour and defying the 'nanny state'. I don't know if that happens in other countries.
We have made progress in reducing the smoking rate, also reducing salt consumption therefore reducing the number of strokes. It can be done in other areas as well.

I often see large sized women say it's impossible to find clothes but actually as I've lost weight I'm starting to see it's really hard for slim women to find clothes. One of the brands I like only goes down to size 8 and I'm already wearing their 8 in skirts even though I'm by no means thin. (BMI 22.4, 73cm waist) I guess that means someone with a small waist can't shop there at all?

That's vanity sizing.

We have made progress in reducing the smoking rate

True but I'm not sure that making analogies to smoking is useful because the two things just don't map onto each other

Lurked Regardless of your definition of thin, you cannot make the assumption that somebody is healthy simply because they are thin. Not unless you know their lifestyle.

I gave up smoking years ago but now a pp mentioned gauloises on the first page,I'd kill for one.
I've seriously considered starting smoking again recently to curb my appetite.
Craziness I know.

Clothes retailers just need to make a profit it follows that they will sell clothes to fit their customer base.

I think that's kind of happening suzzanne but not in a positive way. Look at areas of high obesity, there's very few thin/slim/plump but healthy people. But plenty of too thin and obsessive people following strange regimes.
I can see why a slightly overweight teenager faced with the likes of supersize versus super skinny, or Nicole Richie at her thinnest versus tess, would think the too thin role model more of an ideal.
I think the obesity crisis is in part responsible for the increase in anorexia etc, the media doesn't go in for people within the normal healthy range of thin to 10lbs or so over slim. Anyone in that range is described as either emaciated or a porker.

stripeyTees have you heard of Dr Eva Ormond? she is a Fin married to an Irish man and she is quite famous in Ireland for telling people to eat less. (on TV, chat shows, operation-transformation) I like her! but she has people divided here.She doesn't tolerate delusion!!!

noeffingidea I agree. If Finland, New Zealand and Canada can do it then I'm sure we can too.

Bit depressing when hospitals regularly dish out Muller Lights and put low fat spreads on white bread sandwiches.

The "I've just eaten..." threads on here make me feel sick sometimes. Whole tubs of ice cream, multiple doughnuts and McD's orders big enough to make your eyes pop. And yet posters revel in their unhealthiness, however momentary.

I didn't say being thin automatically makes someone healthy fascicle. Just that in terms of actual body fat levels it is. I don't dispute you can be thin and unhealthy, but being thin in itself (which is today wrongly called being far too skinny) doesn't make you any more likely to be unhealthy than anyone else.

I agree that it's becoming the norm to be larger so that encourages it.

I'm quite slim (only just at healthy BMI) and it is a genetic thing. I eat a lot. But I get a really negative reaction from a lot of people. It sounds very 'oh poor me I'm so thin' and annoying but it actually is quite awful being thin these days sometimes. People 'playfully' talk a lot about me having a little boy's body, go on about me needing to eat something and talk about real women having curves and abhorring all these 'anorexic' people looking so ill.

*Orsmond I mean

AmI I hadn't, but I've just googled her. I like her already.
www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/eva-orsmond-young-women-have-no-reason-to-be-overweight-1.1661796

I agree that people need to take personal responsibility for what they eat, but people don't make decisions in a vacuum. When you're asking yourself "what should I have for dinner?", your response is going to be affected by a range of factors, e.g.

What do I normally have for dinner?
What do people I know normally have for dinner?
What did we used to have for dinner when I was younger?
What will the rest of the family expect?
What food is available - either in the house or in easy reach of the house?
How much time/space/equipment do I have to make dinner?
How confident do I feel that the effort I put in to making dinner will result in something that I will enjoy eating?
What else could I spend my time doing if I wasn't having to make dinner? Would I prefer doing that instead?

People's backgrounds, cultures, locations, lifestyles, incomes will produce different answers to those questions which will result in a different range of choices. To come up with different answers, you sometimes need to make more fundamental changes.

I think the most difficult thing is to change what you 'normally' have for dinner if it's making you fat. It might mean eating different things from your family and friends (who will challenge you), shopping from less convenient or more expensive shops, spending more time making food, battling with the children to get them to eat something new; learning new techniques or using new equipment. There are lots of barriers.

If your existing habits mean cooking healthy food from scratch, you're lucky. Change is hard, and it's not always obvious to people what changes they should be making or how.

I agree with all of that Treats and would add that even when people try to take responsibility and feed themselves and their families a healthy diet they're doing it based on information that they assimilated over the last 20 years which has often been just plain wrong. Advice given by teachers, doctors, parents, journalists and advertising but usually originating from sources with a vested interest (research funded by the food industry)

e.g. we know and love MN, take a lot of advice from people here, but HQ is not ashamed to make a post claiming Bear Paws to be a healthy snack. Parents are buying this rubbish because they're taking responsibility....

I like her too! I've just liked her on facebook, so now I will see her motivational messages in my facebook feed. None of this "ah sure you're grand, we love you how you are" talk from Dr Eva!

facsicle
When I said my gym friends were lean, that is what I meant.
They are not necessarily thin because some of them are bodybuilders
but they are lean
and lean is healthy
full stop

TalkinPeace
You asked how 'thin' people ate.

You also said that your gym friends constantly have to watch what they eat. You've also spoken about the need for willpower. I think it's a shame that eating well is perceived as such an effort. I think it's possible to achieve a reasonably balanced diet/be healthy without constantly thinking about food, denial etc.

facsicle
I think it's possible to achieve a reasonably balanced diet/be healthy without constantly thinking about food, denial etc.
And your evidence for that thought is what exactly ??

You equate lean with ill - incorrectly.
Thin can be ill
but lean rarely is.

Lurkedforever1 - I didn't say being thin automatically makes someone healthy fascicle. Just that in terms of actual body fat levels it is. I don't dispute you can be thin and unhealthy, but being thin in itself (which is today wrongly called being far too skinny) doesn't make you any more likely to be unhealthy than anyone else.

I'm not sure about that. There's good evidence that people in the 'overweight' BMI category (25-30) have the lowest mortality and that those in the lowest 'obese' category (30-35) have around the same mortality as those in the 'normal' category (18.5-25). I don't think being underweight is good for you, either.

Obviously BMI is a blunt instrument and has many flaws. The important thing for health appears to be not having too much visceral fat - the sort that accumulates around your internal organs - and you can be quite 'thin' but still have large amounts of this. Conversely, you can have a giant fat arse and have healthy organs without much fat around them.

but the only people who can control what goes in our mouths is us.

I agree.
I know it's an alien concept in these times, but we have to start re-learning how to take personal responsibility for ourselves once again.
Instead of relying on the State to 'direct' us and 'tell' us what to do.

When did we turn into such sheep?

We have become too used to relying on others to manage our lives.