To wonder why Australia's 'stolen generation' isn't taught in schools or well known?

[workingdilemma]

I was in oz a decade or so ago, and learny of the stolen generation. Aboriginal children who were taken out of their families, put with white families and ein an effort to remove their culture. A lot of people also say part of this was a more shocking plan to eventually 'breed out' the aboriginal people.

This 'strategy' continued at least in part till the 1970s - so shockingly recently.

In australia they have in recent years attempted to attone in some manner by apologising to the aboriginal people, but i find it incredible that over here or elsewhere, very few people know about this.

I was interested to read the ww2 thread just now and it made me wonder again about why this isn't discussed and taught in schools.

Aibu to think this episode of history should be discussed more globally as a historical mistake (and more)?

Well yeah, if you look at a website about persecution of Christians it will tell you about, you know, persecution of Christians.

What about Bosnia? And Burma right now? Not great to be a Muslim. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims

MrsTP - The point I was making was that it is NOT just Christians who perpetrate these crimes against others (as was suggested) rather that any religion can be, and many have been, used in a most divisive way for political gain and cultural oppression.

I did not say it was only Christians. Just seems as though when it is Christians it's sanctioned by our governments and waved through, for decades.

I think when you're teaching children you have to engage them with history and that often means engaging them with things that are relevant to them. If you're talking. WW2, the holocaust, the industrial revolution or even the civil war then those events still have a huge impact on how we live our lives today, how we think, our political systems, our economic and social systems. As well as teaching history they teach about why our society is how it is and how it came to be that way. Horrible though these events were, they didn't have the massive global impact the others did. That's for UK students, not Australian ones.

And the impact of colonialism is being reassessed, the consensus view these days seems to be that it has positives as well as negatives.

And incidentally; if you're arguing everything that's bad in the world is rooted in Christianity, you might like to ponder that the African slave trade was actually started by Muslims.

Oh, so Christian governments are the only ones that sanction oppression? You might want to read up on the Ottoman Empire and the Saudis

FFS that is not what I said. Never mind. I'm obviously not making my point very well here.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=o3rnsGbf9l0

Please watch John pilger's documentary "utopia"
This is a small clip but the whole film is heartbreaking and educational. I really feel strongly that students should learn about this forgotten history.

At school I learnt a few topics but very deeply, so have quite an odd collection of knowledge. I can't see how else they can do it though as history is well, rather big...

So I learnt in depth:

• American colonisation to independence, and a lot about how we wiped out the native population.

• industrial revolution, and role of child labour, and Luddite rebellions. Including very specific local history of Liverpool & manchester canals, and styal mill.

• ww1 & ww2 - again in great detail, and from multiple sides, so not just the brave English saving Europe!

• and my favourite, the history of medicine, from Hippocrates to Florey & Chain and penicillin.

... With a detour into women's rights via Florence nightingale and onto the suffragettes. This wasn't on curriculum but our teacher felt it should be. I agree.

... & skimmed a lot of other eras in brief, none of which stuck in my head!

We also learnt history via other subjects and I think this is where schools miss a trick these days. History comes into so much and if teaching is allowed to can enrich understanding of so much... Eg

• Irish history and how many times we persecuted them, and the potato famines and the mapping of Ireland... we learnt this in English when studying Brian Friels Translations. A lot of crying in those lessons...

• Space race & brain drains I'm the C20th in Physics lessons.

...

As a teacher in Australia, I can tell you that things are VERY different to when I was at school. Aspects of Indigenous culture and respect run through all levels of the curriculum and the day to day life of the school. I also tutor at university level for pre-service teachers and it goes right through all subjects there as well and new teachers are taught a lot of Indigenous aspects of culture, history, and how to teach it appropriately and respectfully.

I grew up in Australia, and actually I am here now on holiday, though I live in the UK - we were taught all about the stolen generation at school, but not many people realise the extent of it in the UK, partly because they have enough history of their own to learn already as part of the curriculum, and partly I suspect because it might be uncomfortable listening...

I do smirk though when Brits get a hair up their arse about some illegal immigrants trying to enter our precious Britain when they invaded Australia and did that to the residents...

My history O Level was specifically Modern British Social and Economic history, or something similar. The curriculum and end exams were set out to make us analyse and think like historians. Not learn some very interesting but unrelated historical events or rote learn dates and names.

We mainly covered the agricultural, industrial revolutions and the rise and fall of the British Empire. Included was the potato famine and slave trade. I enjoyed it, why did the agricultural revolution occur, what benefits, problems etc History lessons should teach children how to think.

As an aside, how far do you carry the guilt? Should Canadians, Australians et al be ashamed still? Be labelled racist still? Or can we say yes it was atrocious, no it shouldn't have happened, thank goodness it has stopped, it was before my time and i am not racist? Therefore should all Australians, canadians be tarred with the same brush as their ancestors and called racist as a sweeping generalisation because of events of years ago?

If that makes sense? I am rubbish at explaining what I mean!!

Tatty, yes to the immigrants too! And also, let's not forget that it was the British who did these things in Australia/Canada!

Well, the guilt thing is interesting. It can be counterproductive, because people don't like to feel guilt. The short answer is while I am still in a class that benefits from the horror (I am) and Fist Nations people are still suffering (they are) the feeling of responsibility should continue.

If we can get to a place where FNs people don't have their children removed more, go to prison more, aren't disappearing regularly link, aren't homeless in vast numbers, aren't addicted and suicidal and on tiny amounts of land in shitty housing, then we can go forward with shared history which includes healing.

Until then, Canadians and immigrants like me should feel responsibility and shame. While we are still pretending that FNs peoples' problems are caused by them (which is very racist) we should feel responsibility and shame.

Agree with this 100% MrsTerryPratchett

Yup me too, it's a good measure of collective responsibility. Though I have experienced first hand the negatives of guilt: it drives people to incredible cruelty and shocking unkindness, topped up with ever increasing levels of denial and refusal to face up to past & current actions.

There must be a way of chanelling guilt and shame, but I believe in most cases it's the greatest driver of terrible wrongs than any other emotion I know.

I think its good to remember the inhumanity shown to native people. To feel disgust at what happened and to strive never to let it happen again and to recognise when it is happening in other countries.

Of course history is biased depending on the countries point of view,no one wants to be painted in a bad light.

" I do smirk though when Brits get a hair up their arse about some illegal immigrants trying to enter our precious Britain when they invaded Australia and did that to the residents..."

good point, TattyDevine, very good point. Sadly there would not be much point in drawing this to their attention as they would probably just go 'UH?'

Exactly what MrsTP said. It's about responsibility, not guilt. Outcomes for Aboriginal Australians are terrible. And you get a lot of people saying 'well, it's their problem, they don't look after their kids well or make good choices or kick the drink, they need to sort themselves out, not my problem.'

But that ignores the two centuries of various white interventions, including many in living memory, that led to this point. It ignores the fact that it's reasonable to say 'well, if we and our forebears hadn't nicked your land and your kids, or massacred you in huge numbers, or imprisoned you in missions where you became dependant on the state and on alcohol, or designed a system that led to generations born with foetal alcohol syndrome, or abused the kids we nicked and failed to educate them, or removed you from your homes and dumped you miles away because they wanted your land for mining, or encouraged remote and separate populations, then you might be doing a bit better. We should probably help solve the problems.'

bertiebotts

"I did not say it was only Christians. Just seems as though when it is Christians it's sanctioned by our governments and waved through, for decades."

I see what you are saying but Christian schools and systems were waived through and supported by Governments where Christianity was the 'major faith'. Given that Britain was the leader of the Commonwealth (lands that had been invaded and 'won') then it is not surprising that Christian missionaries were sent out to 'tame the savages'.

I didn't want this important discussion to focus on ethical and cultural cleansing by the Christians alone when other religions are used similarly for the same power and control elsewhere.

VerityWaves - thank you for that YouTube link:

I wonder if the interviewees didn't want to remember that Aborigines are the indigenous people of Australia who had enjoyed their freedom and cultural traditions until 225 years ago until the British Empire started to use it as a penal colony. Some of the interviewees might have to accept that their great-great-great + 5 grandfather was sent there because of criminal wrong-doing.

And that brings us back to the original OP:

IMO, no, YANBU to wish that this episode of history should be discussed more globally as a historical mistake.

My caveat is that ALL oppression and suppression via religious wars, missionary activity and political contrivance should be discussed and included so that there is a balanced understanding of the root cause.

MiscellaneousAssortment I agree with you about other areas of the curriculum providing 'enrichment' and greater understanding. In my early days of teaching (1970's) we actually worked on TOPICS and every area of the curriculum fed into the half-termly topic. English, Geography, History, Science and Religion worked really well on this method of teaching. We found ways of including PE, Domestic Science and Maths.

MidniteScribbler and TattyDevine I can assure you that since the Australian Royal Commission into Child Sex Abuse was established in November 2012, the UK is watching, learning and being educated! (The UK has recently established a Statutory Inquiry into Child Sex Abuse led by Justice Lowell Goddard from New Zealand).

GarlicDoughballsInGlitter In answer to your question: NO - we should not feel guilt and personal responsibility. However, we should become better educated about our history and the power controls so that we can stop it happening again. We are not, IMO, at the stage where we can just put these issues to rest as we don't know all the intricacies of how it happened, who covered up, who condoned etc.

I feel no guilt for my ancestors - but I will work until the last breath in my body to make sure we (as a collective force) achieve justice and peace for those affected. Persecution and child abuse continues. Parents still have children snatched into the clutches of the authorities. Poor families in Africa, for example, still hand over their children to charities so that they can be educated. Usually in a residential school.

IMO, we have to be open to new information, keep discussing and sharing views/opinions. It is only through our understanding and protestations that we can stop atrocities continuing.

Thank you for reading this.

SW x

Hear, hear Jassy!

You are v welcome SW
That film changed so much for me. It's breathtaking and heartbreaking what has happened and continue to happens to these people. They have no voice.