To be fuming with DD's Guide leader?

[Classroomblues]

I am absolutely fuming right now. Dd2 has just got back from a camping holiday with her Guide group. She didn't look particularly great when I picked her up and it turns out she's been unwell with food poisoning and they didn't call me. What's upset me even more is it was caused by incredibly poor hygiene measures.
The cooked chicken yesterday. Dd2 apparently told the leader she isn't allowed to touch raw chicken at home and the leader said "well you're not at home now".

The hand washing was a BOWL of soapy water. Not even any actual soap or running water. Surely anyone knows this is not good hygiene?
Dd said their camp was so far from the toilet block that she had to crouch outside her tent in the middle of the night with an upset stomach etc. :(
She asked the leaders if they would call me this morning and they refused as we were collecting them this evening anyway. AIBU to be upset/ angry? I don't know if I'm more upset or angry right now.

[fastdaytears]

raven did you do veggie marshmallows too? They never melt properly so I always feel bad for the veggie kids with their rubbish s'mores (but give them extra chocolate)

[FarFromAnyRoad]

You sound completely bonkers to be honest. Not allowed to touch raw chicken? What kind of nonsense is that? It's chicken not bloody Polonium-210!
All aboard for the fast service to Gripsville!

[AngieBolen]

I wouldn't let my 10yo DD touch raw chicken either OP.

I also wouldn't want her eating non-free range chicken, so would normally say she's vegetarian for things like this.

I'm presuming a vegetarian wouldn't be expected handle meat, but who knows at Guide camp.

The leaders probably didn't realise she was ill. Which makes me for the OP's DD having to deal with this by herself.

Tiredness can make children ill on camp
Too many sweets can make children ill on camp

Well look after them properly then, and they won't get over tired or stuff their faces with too many sweets. Or is that what Guide camp is all about?

[Katie2001]

I don't think anyone believes it's Okay for her to have had to squat outside her tent, sounds awful. If any parent was upset with one or all the leaders at our cub pack, we would of course listen. I do think, however, unless you've observed a camp in action and seen how much care is given to your children, steaming in furious might not achieve much.

[WordGetsAround]

OP - it's not that I think you're 'bonkers' (for not teaching your daughter to safely handle raw chicken), but that by not doing so, you have quite possibly created this situation yourself.

However, I have also had food poisoning and a bit of D&V doesn't even hint at the absolutely horrendous fortnight I had with it. So quite possibly it's something else entirely.

Don't let any of this get in the way of your fuming though.

[Emochild]

Angie -you can tell them not to bring sweets but short of a bag search you can't guarantee they don't end up having a midnight feast

Tiredness -you can send then to bed but you can't make them sleep!

[fastdaytears]

Emo don't be silly that's just us not looking after them properly. Because no child has ever got an upset stomach at home.

[BarbarianMum]

Angie oh please "don't let them get overtired". Would love to see you make that one work. Tuck 'em all into their sleeping bags at 8.30 and they'll get straight off to sleep? Of course they will. In an unfamiliar "bed" in a tent with 9 of their mates. No chance of giggling/chatting there then

[AngieBolen]

Come to my house when DD is having a sleep over and I'll show you how it's done.

[notquitegrownup2]

But the OP has taught her dd how to handle raw chicken - you don't unless necessary (I usually use a fork to put it into the baking tin/onto the grill and then scald the fork) and then you only handle it if you can wash your hands under running water with soap - not in a bowl shared with others. I have always understood that salmonella is widely present on raw chicken and only killed by high temperatures during cooking, and have seen what salmonella does to someone at close quarters

[WordGetsAround]

AngieBolen 'look after them properly then'.

Words fail me.

[Lurkedforever1]

If she was squatting next to the tent during the night, then surely you can ring her friends and find out what they and the guide leader had to say when they all smelt/ saw it next morning.
Not getting the chicken thing at all, dds been sticking her (clean) hands in whatever I was cooking since she could stand on a chair and 'help'. Same as all my friends kids. Is chicken now age rated?

[Fluffy24]

I think I'd be cross.

Raw chicken is a particular risk because of campylabacter (sp?) and not sure it's really an appropriate meat to cook 'in the field' especially if there isn't hot running water ( which I think is considered essential from a food hygiene perspective if you are a commercial kitchen). I would be less bothered if they'd previously frozen the chicken (which I understand kills campylabacter) or cooked chicken being reheated.

FWIW I think if her dicky tum was caused by campylabacter you'd know about it - I think it would have made her sufficiently and more obviously Ill and you'd have definitely had a phone call.


I understand that it's run by volunteers and doubtless they're doing a great job and should generally receive more thanks and appreciation than they get, but if what your DD says is correct YANBU.

Whether it not you ABU allow her to touch raw chicken at home is irrelevant IMO, it was either safe and had been properly risk assessed or it wasn't.

[AngieBolen]

Well, if parents send their DC with sweets, fizzy drinks etc and they then throw up, the parents can't really complain.

But that doesn't seem to be the issue with the OP's DD.

[fastdaytears]

Fluffy there will have been a long and detailed risk assessment. The paperwork and training for camp are both huge.

[AngieBolen]

WordGetsAround does the OP feel like her DD was properly cared for?

Would I feel like my DD was properly cared for if they were allowed to stay up until midnight stuffing their faces on sweets? I know this is some peoples idea of fun, and there is nothing wrong with that, and the child is being well cared for....but personally I wouldn't be happy. Which is why I wouldn't let DD go on guide camp.

[TheUnwillingNarcheska]

Re not handling raw chicken, Ds1 had to cut up raw chicken breast and cook it alongside bacon in year 7 within 3 weeks of starting so you might want to brush up on hygiene and food skills before they start secondary.

Children are prone to exaggerate so I would want to hear the leader's version of events before anything else.

[fastdaytears]

Angie what about school residentials? Based on my (historic) experience I was a lot more likely to go to sleep for Brown Owl than my year 5 teacher...

[AngieBolen]

I think the OP should calmly request to see the risk assessment, and what measures were put in place regarding hygiene and preparing meals.

Rinsing your hands in a bowl of water after cutting up vegetables is very different to after cutting up raw chicken.

[ravenAK]

Marshmallows fastdaytears?! This was the 80s!

You damn well squidged some dough on a stick (with your unwashed hands) & held it over the fire until it was charcoal on the outside & raw on the inside, then smeared it with Economy Mixed Fruit Jam.

They were called dampers, I think. Yum! A week of Sosmix followed by dampers, & you'd be crouching by your tent for sure.

[Viviennemary]

It sounds bad. Your poor DD. But I don't think you can be sure how she got this infection. I'd certainly tell the leaders but not go in full blast. They are volunteers after all. Not something I'd want to do. Too much like hard work and problems like this one.

[EustaciaBenson]

Angie, the guide leaders arent the ones who supply the sweets you know! Ive been on a scout camp where one of the boys got sent with a carrier bag of sweets for each day of camp, although I'll admit that is the most extreme I've ever seen. But even so its the parents sending the sweets, not the guiders

[Emochild]

Angie strangely enough I can get my daughter and her friends, in a warm comfy house, to go to sleep

24 10-14 year olds, in tents sleeping 6, in unfamiliar sleeping bags, sleeping on the floor, usually with other groups staying on the campsite, with people traipsing to the toilet block all night... is a completely different scenario

[fastdaytears]

Ha ha the girls in my group still request dampers! I'm not keen to be honest but maybe I need to be a bit braver.
Worst thing that happened to us was some girls helping themselves to our emergency red bull which was hidden inside our not-to-be-entered leaders bit. At 10 pm. I did feel bad about that but I think they learnt.