To be fuming with DD's Guide leader?

[Classroomblues]

I am absolutely fuming right now. Dd2 has just got back from a camping holiday with her Guide group. She didn't look particularly great when I picked her up and it turns out she's been unwell with food poisoning and they didn't call me. What's upset me even more is it was caused by incredibly poor hygiene measures.
The cooked chicken yesterday. Dd2 apparently told the leader she isn't allowed to touch raw chicken at home and the leader said "well you're not at home now".

The hand washing was a BOWL of soapy water. Not even any actual soap or running water. Surely anyone knows this is not good hygiene?
Dd said their camp was so far from the toilet block that she had to crouch outside her tent in the middle of the night with an upset stomach etc. :(
She asked the leaders if they would call me this morning and they refused as we were collecting them this evening anyway. AIBU to be upset/ angry? I don't know if I'm more upset or angry right now.

[GwendolineMaryLacey]

My friend has just got home from camp. I would text and ask if it rang any bells but she's just gone to bed absolutely exhausted and she has to be up at 6am for work.

[BarbarianMum]

I'd have been (very) unhappy not to be called for something like this but it is done now. I would be very clear that I expect to be called for anything like this on future trips though.

As for the food poisoning - are you sure? Salmonella is what you usually get from undercooked chicken and tbh your dd (thankfully) doesn't sound ill enough. I thought I was dying with salmonella - a
I was spectacularly ill. Felt worse than I did with typhoid and that was no walk in the park, either.

If your dd does test positive for salmonella, or half the troop come down with it in the next couple of hours showing it was food poisoning then it would be worth reviewing their hygiene procedures with them but it does seem terribly unlucky/unlikely that the one child whose terrified of raw chicken is the one to get food poisoning.

[yetanotherchangename]

OP I don't think you're being unreasonable, but then I never touch raw chicken. Silly thing to serve on camp as it's one of the things most likely to give you food poisoning. Getting the kids to touch it without proper hand washing facilities is also silly IMHO.

For those of you saying that she should hope back from complaining because the Guide leaders will be volunteers, I think that shows a really warped view.

I volunteer and if anyone came to harm or was unhappy because of my poor planning, then I would be hugely apologetic. But it's partly that attitude that means I'm withdrawing my DC from the scouting movement.

[fastdaytears]

yetanotherchangename no one is saying not to complain- of course volunteers who are looking after children have a standard to reach. We're just saying find out first if there's anything to complain about before going nuts at someone who gave up a week of their own life for your child.
If no other children are sick and OP's daughter not at death's door then is it salmonella? I always thought chicken risky because of severity of salmonella not liklihood of getting it as your post suggests.

[Iggi999]

I'm sure seeing your dd ill is very upsetting, but I do think yabu.
I can imagine if they called parents any time the children were ill, then parents would complain about having their free time interrupted.
And have a thought for the leaders who are not reimbursed in any way for this trip, and all the preparations. (I have no connections with guides etc!)

[WordGetsAround]

You've never allowed your 10+ year old daughter to touch raw chicken?!

There's a big bad (and very exciting!) world out there and raw chicken is the least of it. I think you need to start preparing her for the future or life's going to be tough.

[Becles]

yetanotherchangename

No one is saying back off from making a complaint.

BarbarianMum

I would beveryclear that I expect to be called for anything like this on future trips though.

You may expect it, but if you clearly did not trust me to use my judgement during the trip I would not be taking your daughter o the trip.


They are asking that the leaders get some uninterrupted sleep and rest before they go to their paid work on Monday.

The OP has been asked to take a moment to hear their perspective of the situation was from actual grown ups as opposed to an emotional child before making up her mind and going in all guns blazing. It's called courtesy, role modelling to her daughter and being older than 16.

[Laquila]

I don't undestand how you cook chicken if you never allow yourself to touch it whilst raw?

[Becles]

mumsnet needs an edit button.

[Salmotrutta]

Is the OP not coming back then?

Perhaps she is on the phone to the Guide Leader...

[AngieBolen]

So basically, because the adults are volunteers, and because Guide camp is all about new experiences and learning lifes kills, you should suck it up OP.

Your DD may have been squitting outside her tent, as she couldn't make it to the toilet block, but she coped didn't she?!!

I get all this...which is why my DD doesn't go to Guides.

[fastdaytears]

Probably trying to get Lady Baden-Powell's number off 192.com

[fastdaytears]

Angie no one has suggested that it's all ok- just that more information is needed. She might have a legitimate complaint, she might not.

[LottieDoubtie]

If her DD had been squitting outside her tent I can guarantee the leader knew about it and I am at the idea that it wasn't raised with the OP. I mean really? A kid actually pooing uncontrollably outside a tent and going unnoticed and therefore child being neglected? I've met some dodgy guiders in my life (and for the record many many more excellent ones) BUT nobodies that unobservant/negligent.

[MadamArcatiAgain]

Maybe she should quit? I don't think you and your DD really 'get' Guiding, which is a pity because she is probably one of those who would benefit the most from it.

[ravenAK]

I had campylobacter from (OK, this is disgusting) presumably ds's nappies -he got it from his CM's undercooked chicken - I was veggie at the time.

It was truly, truly awful. I think if your dd had actual food poisoning, she'd have been ill enough for any leader to want her out of their responsibility asap - we're talking agony here, & exploding uncontrollably both ends. Not just a bit off colour & doubled up because the loo was a way off.

I'd say it's very very much more likely she had a bit of a bug, combined with homesickness, nerves & unfamiliar food all giving her a dodgy tum, poor thing.

Maybe query the lack of running water or at the very least a bar of soap for giving hands a good scrub & not a quick dabble in soapy water, but I wouldn't rush to put together that & her being unwell.

& I definitely wouldn't go steaming in to someone who'd just spent a weekend volunteering to look after other people's children. Leaders will be shattered. I'm a teacher, I organise lots of trips & it's a bugger to get staff volunteers. Parents going off half-cocked rather than calming the geoff down & speaking to an adult to get the full story is a big part of the reason for this.

[AnnaBegins]

What Becles said.

We have just been greenfield camping with scouts, no running water there, so hand washing is a bowl of soapy water and, crucially, antibacterial hand gel. So your daughter may not class this as part of the washing hands process but it may well have been available.

All kids of 10+ should be capable of cooking chicken. Maybe if you taught her at home she would have a better idea of food hygiene on camp.

I must say even though we supervise scout cooking intensely, we do view every meal with some trepidation! Remember the leaders will have eaten what she cooked too! Some kids can be so silly, heading off to the toilet tent in the middle of cooking and not washing hands on their return, so we watch them like hawks.

I do agree they should have called you if she was that ill though. It may have been a bug or virus if no one else was ill.

The leaders are volunteers and have just looked after your daughter for free for a week, giving up their own holiday to do so. Maybe give them some recovering time before you fume at them. I can tell you I'm exhausted and only did 4 days (the other leaders were there all 8 days).

[Classroomblues]

To those that said I don't 100 percent know if its food poisoning - you're right, no I don't. It just seems odd for her to get ill the way she did.

She told me she did wash her hands properly when she went to the toilet block later that evening.

And to those that think I'm bonkers for not letting my 10 year old touch raw chicken then I am fine with that!

[Emochild]

Tiredness can make children ill on camp
Too many sweets can make children ill on camp
Not wanting to pitch in with the cleaning can make children ill on camp

I've been woken several times at 3am to the sound of 'emo, flossy has been sick'
I've only ever sent 2 children home from camp -not because I expect them to suck it up, in fact the last thing I want is a stomach bug making its way round camp or for anyone to feel miserable, but because 9/10 they are better after a nap or join in with their friends and get their 2nd wind

The leaders may not even have know she was ill if she had dealt with it herself during the night
A child asking to go home may just be homesickness and they would generally be jollied along

[Oswin]

I cant understand why anyone thinks the dd squatting outside the tent Is ok? Putting aside the issue of raw chicken, its awful. Posts to do with brownies and the guides always go this way. Its like no matter what you just have to be grateful because they are volunteer's.

[Janethegirl]

Hell, I hope it was organic free range chicken, my dc wouldn't touch anything else, nor would I have let them!

[fastdaytears]

oswin no one has said that though. It's difficult to believe that it happened exactly as reported because guiding rules about access to toilets are strict- hence more investigation needed.
You don't have to accept anything a volunteer does but if anyone has put themselves out for you in a big way then it's a lot nicer to raise your concerns in a measured way than to make a huge fuss without knowing the facts when the recipient of your rage is mentally and physically exhausted. That's not the same thing at all.

[OTheHugeManatee]

Seriously? Your Guides-aged DD is not allowed to touch raw chicken? Does she have some kind of autoimmune condition?

[ravenAK]

Doubt it on guide camp. I used to do B-P scouts & it was all about the Kwiksave battery chooks & economy sausages. Veggie mate & I used to take a bag of Sosmix & were the laughing stock of the entire camp...

[LaLyra]

If she had dirrhea so bad she was squatting outside of the tent in the night then she should have been sent home imo, as long as she gave the leaders an accurate picture of how ill she was (I once got bollocked by a playscheme parent for allowing thei child to join back in games after throwing up in the toilet - the kid mentioned having a bit of a sore tummy, but then joined in at rounders quite happily - I'm not psychic and wasn't in the toilet with her!). If they knew then she shouldn't travelling with the other kids potentially passing her bug/illness onto more people. I wouldn't be assuming it was the chicken yet - getting poorly from chicken is awful so if she was fit to help pack up and isn't feeling absolutely dire I'd think it was coincidence.

The washing bowl sounds iffy if they were all washing their hands in the same bowl and could merit a mention later.

The not touching raw chicken is not reasonable imo. Guides cook their own food, if they are having chicken then they need to touch it. Far, far better to teach them how to prepare and cook chicken safely than ban them from touching it imo.