To be fuming with DD's Guide leader?

[Classroomblues]

I am absolutely fuming right now. Dd2 has just got back from a camping holiday with her Guide group. She didn't look particularly great when I picked her up and it turns out she's been unwell with food poisoning and they didn't call me. What's upset me even more is it was caused by incredibly poor hygiene measures.
The cooked chicken yesterday. Dd2 apparently told the leader she isn't allowed to touch raw chicken at home and the leader said "well you're not at home now".

The hand washing was a BOWL of soapy water. Not even any actual soap or running water. Surely anyone knows this is not good hygiene?
Dd said their camp was so far from the toilet block that she had to crouch outside her tent in the middle of the night with an upset stomach etc. :(
She asked the leaders if they would call me this morning and they refused as we were collecting them this evening anyway. AIBU to be upset/ angry? I don't know if I'm more upset or angry right now.

[Theresadogonyourballs]

Misses point of thread entirely

[Theresadogonyourballs]

I went to Guide camp at the age of 10. It rained constantly. After 48 hours the guider in charge announced that she'd 'had enough of the weather' and was going home! She called all the parents and told them she was off home, and could they please pick up their daughters' immediately. Me and 2 mates protested, (we were having a ball!), and the neighbouring Guide group took pity on us and let us join them. We stayed for the rest of the week and had an amazing time. Our Guider was the laziest cow I've ever met, God knows why she was even doing it.

[chaiselounger]

I think OP may be over reacting.
But some of the comments re food poisoning are just not true. Some have said 'well it's only if all the kids get it, in the next week, that you have reason to think it was food poisoning.'

But that's not the way food poisoning works. Dh and I ate the same meal . He got campylobacter, and was in hospital for 4 days. I was fine.

[CarpeJugulum]

YY to the "exciting evening so we'll turn up". We visited the local police station as part of the crime prevention badge; they actually tested the girls which was fantastic!

Got to see the overnight cells, the cars, got fingerprinted (yes, we took them away!), breathalysed and it was amazing. Volunteers for that night were through the roof. Sadly I only managed to take the parents who actually did help when they could!

But this is derailing the OP. OP if what your daughter said dos happen, is the truth, then please do complain properly. BUT please check first as my belief is that yes she may have had a sore stomach with cramps but I would doubt the crapping outside the tent and not being able to tell the Guiders.

[budgiegirl]

To be fair, we've had some lovely parents in the past, and one or two great ones at the moment. But it just seems unfair to keep asking the same one or two, when there are so many other parents.

I do appreciate that it is difficult for a few parents who might be working, or have younger children, but with plenty of notice, most should be able to manage it. Or at least have the manners to let us know, rather than just not turning up

[Noodledoodledoo]

Budgiegirl we took your method a step further to cover my maternity leave (8 weeks off) We sent home dates for the whole term to cover just in case scenarios with a Guide name attached - only one per family as we have a number of sisters.

We stated that person was responsible for providing an over 18 person for the meeting - if they were unable to do it then they were required to find a replacement - if no one turned up the meeting would be cancelled and the girls would require collecting.

We had previously asked for volunteers with only 1 out of 28 coming forward!

We do have some fab parents though - a couple of weeks before the end of term the other guider was stuck on her commute due to a train fatality and was running late and the first one I asked stayed for 10-15 mins so I wasn't alone before she could make it.

[budgiegirl]

We were always asking for parent volunteers to help at weekly cub meetings, and not one parent volunteered. In the end we just sent home a rota, telling parents which meeting they were helping at. If a parent can't help , we ask them to let us know in advance. As we have 30 cubs, it only works out to be about one meeting a year, but still we get regular weeks where parents didn't turn up.

It's got to a point where we have so few leaders, we may have to close down the cub pack, despite having a waiting list to join. Parents , on the whole, just don't want to help even occasionally. It sometimes feels like we are just a cheap baby sitting service.

Oh, except the evening when we visited the fire station, we got lots of parent volunteers that evening !

[bettyberry]

amothersplaceisinthewrong - undercooked sausages and burgers are in fact just as dangerous as chicken because the meat is minced and all the bacteria doesn't just stay on the surface but is in the middle of the product. All foods have the potential to carry bacteria and other pathogens that can harm us. You'd still have to know how to handle a burger and a sausage, wash your hands properly and cook it thoroughly. Just as you would chicken so that argument doesn't really stand.

[bettyberry]

CarpeJugulum - I understand your frustration. I would often volunteer at our beaver group. I was mostly needed to help handle trips out. Geocaching, parks, berry picking etc and It was always me. No other parents. The leader tried her best calling other parents to help out and would try them first because she hated to always rely on me but they all 'had plans'. None of them realised without my help their children wouldn't have been able to do exciting night walks looking for bats (we have woodland very close 5mins, so very doable for beavers here) or geocaching or even play rounders in the park.

I even volunteered pre DS for a scout camp because they lacked a female leader for the 3 girls in the scout group. I wasn't trained as a leader at the time (friend of another leader) but had my E DRB and food hygiene etc etc

Had I not offered to help those 3 girls would have missed out. Parents need to step up an help. Its really not that difficult to give up 90 minutes of your time and you don't have to faff about going home one week. They'll even let you have a cuppa if you ask nicely :)

[SideOrderofChips]

claps 001 I only do 24 hours camps, i do weekends if we are short on leaders. I couldn't do week longs as weekend is plenty for me to plan!!

The risk assessments alone are a nightmare!

[Ragwort]

Fear of litigation - it might be fear of litigation that stops people volunteering as Leaders, but I am still not sure why parents are so much more difficult and unappreciative of the Leaders than they were years ago.

Speaking of litigation, my brother (a single, middle aged man - yes, lots of horrible comments as Red says) was a scout leader and a one of the boys broke his leg whilst playing football, a pure accident, no danger involved - the parents sued my brother - needless to say he eventually left Scouting and no one else volunteered to run the Scouts - yet another village left without Scouting.

[RedToothBrush]

DH started back as a scout leader before we had DS.

Of course everyone looked at him with suspicion. Why would a young man with no children of his own want to volunteer? He's had more than a few paedo comments from friends and acquaintances. Tongue in cheek but there is an element of it that gets to you after a while.

The thing is it gives DH the opportunity to be a big kid too and do lots of activities he wouldn't do otherwise (and at a cheaper price generally though his coaching qualifications are expensive).

The GSL has made a point of trying to recruit adults to volunteer by trying to do exciting activities that get the parents interested and they might want to join in with rather than just doing stuff the kids like.

[MadamArcatiAgain]

I was in Scouting for over 35 years blush - I started at 16 grin - years ago parents just were much more appreciative and willing to get involved - I don't know why it has changed so much - it is very sad

Fear of litigation.

[LavenderLeigh]

Not to mention the poor Guider who had to clean it up.

If indeed she did anything other than just crouch outside the tent. I don't think that was ever clarified, but it could have meant she was bent over with tummy pains, not necessarily D&V

[MadamArcatiAgain]

*Crouching with the runs outside a tent must have been horrible.....

..and not just for her!!Would you want to sleep a few feet away from someone else's diarrhoea?

[Maycausesideeffects]

001001 - brilliant!

Perhaps I should have sent the moaning mums a volunteering form instead. Or we can get more radical - you child can join if you commit to help out organise and run an activity once a term.

[Waltons]

00100001 Mon 10-Aug-15 16:29:24

I think I love you.

Please accept , , , - as many of each as you can handle.

[budgiegirl]

Crouching with the runs outside a tent must have been horrible.....

the whole toilet issue is why I and my dd would never camp.

I agree, if that's what really happened, it must have been pretty miserable for the child.

And I agree that if your DD can't cope with a walk to a toilet, then camping isn't for her.

But the benefits that children get from going on scout/cub/guide camps are enormous, and give happy memories that last a lifetime. What a shame to miss out on that because you don't want your dd to have to walk across a field to a toilet!

[Salmotrutta]

Yep Camel not much fawning at secondary.

Plenty of blaming if Little Janey doesn't get straight As though despite telling parents all year that Little Janey is struggling because obviously we have magic wands that turn average kids into geniuses

[amothersplaceisinthewrong]

IF the hygiene around the chicken was as the OP describes (one bowl of soapy water) for all kids, then it is not good enough and is not teaching a life skill. Handling food is a necessary life skill, but as others have said in commercial kitchens hot and cold running water are a legal requirement for handling this.

I would have said saussages and beef burgers were safer than chicken and easier to cook properly....

Crouching with the runs outside a tent must have been horrible.....

the whole toilet issue is why I and my dd would never camp.

[Ragwort]

I was in Scouting for over 35 years - I started at 16 - years ago parents just were much more appreciative and willing to get involved - I don't know why it has changed so much - it is very sad. I can remember lugging home loads of lovely thank you gifts after every camp - chocolates, wine etc and receiving handwritten thank you cards from the children.

But attitudes as so different now, everyone seems out to criticise and look for faults - the only people that will suffer are the children who are missing out as so few people are willing to volunteer anymore.

I've made this comment before on Mumsnet - everyone fawns over teachers at the end of the year with gifts etc but how many parents give a proper thank you to all the volunteers who give up their time for children - whether in scouting, guiding, DoE, sports clubs etc etc.

[00100001]

but, it is parents like the OP who are quick to blame the leaders that make it all a bit shit.


Leaders have sent 100s of kids through camp. They have training, they know what they're doing. They know how to run a camp, funnily enough.


To all the critics... VOLUNTEER YOURSELVES


Show us all how you can get 30 kids through a week long camp all going to bed quietly before 9pm!

Show us at 4am how you perfectly manage a child's sickness

Show us on day 3 how you magically have no kids with homesickness!

Feel free to fill in ALL the paperwork, ALL the risk assessments, collect all the money, make sure all consent forms are present and correct.

Feel free to organise and book the transport.

Show us how you manage to prevent the kids/parents packing sweets for those midnight feasts.

Feel free to give up a week of your annual leave to go to camp with these kids.

Whilst you're at it, don't forget to pack extra blankets/jumpers/coats because there will be that one child without.

Oh yes, and do volunteer to be QM and provide perfect meals to cater for all tastes within budget!

Oh, yes, and don't worry about getting up at 6am, obviously on your perfect camp all kids will be up dressed and washed ready for breakfast by themselves with no chivvying.

Feel free to organise the duty rotas!

Please DO show us how it is done!

[00100001]

We're fortunate, our parents are really appreciative of the work we do - one in particular always says thank you for giving up our evenings/afternoons/days/week etc :)