AIBU not to support the British farmers

[WitchofScots]

My Facebook is full of people saying they don't mind paying more for milk because they support the British Farmers.

If milk is more expensive then that's going to deprive children from families on/below the poverty line of a healthy drink, fruit is expensive, organic meat is expensive, ditto vegetables but milk is relatively cheap.

YABVU. They aren't suggesting a ridiculous amount more. It's not going to deprive kids in 'poverty' of a healthy drink, only their parents can do that. People, in 'poverty' or not make decisions and have choices, sometimes they make bad choices because they either don't prioritise right or aren't really bothered about certain things or don't know/understand some things related to food and prices they can get things for. That's slightly different,isn't it?!

It's a few pence. Easily doable, even for those in 'poverty'.

Our farmers should be supported. In fact, all British businesses should be more supported by us instead of everyone running for the cheapest foreign thing going.

Surly maybe others would but I have never, and will never, call somebody an idiot on MN.

YABVU but I am glad that you have been given some facts & hopefully been educated.

I can just make the point that "Fair trade" exists for this very reason (& others) so that farmers in developing countries are paid fairly! Why not here in the UK, it's a bloody disgrace.

Surly maybe others would but I have never, and will never, call somebody an idiot on MN.

Thats your prerogative. Have I to conform to your chosen rules of behaviour online? When was that made a talk guideline?

typical AIBU.....

where is the discussion about do we even need to be drinking milk?

IWent - this is a discussion about dairy farmers being paid a fair price for their milk.

If you want to start a different discussion about whether or not we need to drink milk - TaDaaa - the board is open for you to start a new thread.

YABcompletelyfuckingU

A whole industry should go under and farmers and their families suffer in silence so that milk can remain completely unreasonably cheap?! Where on earth do you get the idea that dairy farmers should subsidise milk for everyone else?!

God ignorance makes me sick

Yabu

Your post was deleted surly

I visited a Dairy farm & was surprised at how much hard work it was... I thought then my goodness these farmers must be running at a loss.. I'd be happy to pay more for milk & have the government financially help our farmers more than they do.. As European countries do their farmers & growers of fruit, vegetables & flowers.. We have lost so many farms & produce growers thanks to cheap imports & greedy price setting supermarkets.

I'm on the Farmers side, it's disgusting the pittance they're are paid for the milk. Farmers have such an important job. Food overall has been far too cheap for far too long, we need to stop eating so much and concentrate on quality not quantity.

To be honest the full facts aren't presented and they are not in a format I personally can understand.

The farmers are being paid less than the milk cost to produce, but are we still in the situation where subsidies are being paid to farmers and is this accounted for in their cost to produce figures?

The article linked says farmers get guaranteed income from the state? Is this in their cost to produce figures??

Is it big farmers too or small farmers only being hit by the low prices and are the subsidies given to big farmers to blame, can they afford to sell cheaper causing demand/supply issues? Should big farmers have lower subsidies making the milk price more rather than the retail price going up?

Is there too much milk being produced, like in the 80's when we had huge milk mountains and pushing the price down. If there is some production should be stopped to balance supply/demand.

How much milk is sold in retail? I'm recall (but may be wrong) somewhere said 10% and the rest goes to dried milk and/or other products, so the supermarket retail price (as shown in the picture above) is only relevant to just 10% of milk sales.

Does the picture of the milk bottle and the cost to produce/sell etc being shown by the farmers tell the full story or only a small part of the whole financial situation and is not shown in context with subsidies and guaranteed income etc etc.

So I'm getting skelves in my bum sitting on the fence of ignorance.

I took our A level students to visit an organic farm. The farmer was in his 70s and his body was knackered. He couldn't retire. The farm scraped in £5000 a year as he couldn't afford to hire help. His wife's pension was depleted to keep the farm afloat. I would rather pay a bit more for milk than lose our milk industry to foreign farmers and risk consuming doctored products. I know that not everyone can afford this but we have to pay a fair price.

Less than half the milk produced in this country is consumed as milk, most goes inot other dairy products. The price of milk is falling because of more supply because the EU has removed milk quotas which kept supply artifically low and prices artifically high.
All milk in the EU is produced under the same farming standards and the best farmers will produce milk and make money - only inefficient farmers will go bankrupt and I do not understand why we should support inefficiencies.

I'll declare my bias in advance: I'm involved in (organic) dairying.

I'd recommend buying organic milk if you can afford it, as you know then that a fair price has been paid to the farmer, and you are supporting sustainable farming. The land has had no artificial inputs, ie. fertilisers and pesticides and the cows are fed on a more natural diet. The milk is tastier and arguably healthier, plus the welfare is higher - you know for sure that the cows graze out at pasture and are not kept inside all year round etc.

I always but organic milk, but should I be shopping for it at any particular place? Or brand? I'd rather buy it from a supermarket if possible, but are any supermarkets more ethical about their milk retailing than the others?

The4 problem with that, carol, is accepting EU milk instead of UK milk. The oversupply is not in the UK but worldwide. This allows makers of other dairy products to take advantage and bypass UK dairies, where overheads are higher. There is no level playing field here. UK dairy farmers are being squeezed by the supermarkets and middle men, all of whom make a profit, unlike the very people who produce the milk.

As far as subsidies go, that is a bit of a red herring. Many of the subsidies go to the owner of the land, as do the various remaining quotas. Lots of farmers are tenants, so they never see the subsidy, though it does enable the landlord not to raise the rent and put them out of business. There is a lot of misunderstanding about that. Some of which are included in the link upthread.

Particularly obnoxious is a firm called Graham's Milk which pays a pittance to the farmer

Oh bugger, I thought they were one of the good ones. We get our milk delivered by McQueens - are they ok?

chairmeoh, not really, I think it's fine to buy anywhere - supermarket or independent retailer. The co-op we sell our milk to supplies about 60% of all UK organic milk and they do their best by us in trying to pay a reasonable price for our milk. Thank you for your support, it's appreciated.

We have a milk delivery direct from the dairy. The milk is organic. We pay a bit more but the farmers get a bit more too.

lazyloulou You still haven't said why i should pay more for UK milk

Maybe I don't think you should! The middle men and supermarkets could lose a little of their profits.

Or that the difference in cost is so slight it would be worth it to support UK farmers.

Or, paying less for non UK milk may be cheaper in the short term but, when we no longer have dairy farmers and America, Africa supply it, you may find yourself paying more for a less fresh product.

Or, maybe you just wouldn't notice if the price of all dairy went up by pennies.

Or any other reason anyone can come up with for themselves.

My reason would be that I find it inconceivable that supermarkets can squeeze so many producers, offering the equivalent of zero hours contracts, only recently having been stopped from making suppliers pay for the contracts. It is extortion and that should be illegal, however it is dressed up!

We were driven out of dairy farming, as tenant farmers, 20 years ago precisely for this reason (so nothing's changed in all that time ) after the landlord put up the farm rent by 150% from £20,000 p.a. to £45,000 p.a. to pay for the landlord's financial ineptitude.

A neighbouring farmer committed suicide because he couldn't pay it.

Subsidies went to the multimillionaire landowner, who heavily over invested in new heavy machinery, and to avoid bankruptcy then evicted the remaining tenants a year later - when my cousin hung himself because he couldn't face finding a house, new job etc with no money.

Milk prices stink.

You don't need dairy in your diet.

We are a family with widespread dairy allergies and intolerances so don't have it in the house. We haven't died of any deficiencies at all.

I still support dairy farmers though and their right to a decent living

I saw an interview with a dairy farmer who said he doesn't even make the minimum wage so he/his family will living in poverty too, don't you have sympathy for him?