To think his latest attack on the unions hits a new low?

[Sixweekstowait]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/06/public-sector-workers-stopped-automatically-union-subscriptions-pay-cheque

With computerised pay rolls, what is the cost to the employers of the automatic deductions of union fees? Another reason the government puts forward is that it will lead to greater transparency as workers will realise they are paying - ffs. No this is just sheer vindictiveness because public sector unions are still relatively powerful. The lessons of history show a close correlation bewteen attacks on union rights and fascism .

Donttcall- that's interesting that your union is bring proactive but sad that it has to be and use up resources. Interesting legal point about check-off being in the contract

Some pp clearly don't grasp the facts of this situation, as others have said unions are already opt-in, and that's not the issue here.
YANBU

Not to mention that there is a cost incurred in removing Check -off.

The unions could just accept cash or cheques or paypal - no need for the faff of DD.
I opt in to a union, making a conscious decision to do so, and benefit from fantastic services (NASUWT). I am low paid, but the membership is a bargain.
No justification for employers to have to do the admin - it should be done by the unions.
If membership falls as a result, well they need to do more to promote the union or charge the members a higher fee.

I agree it seems hugely petty to stop union payments going straight from pay packets. It's just another way of trying to disrupt the unions, there are always disorganised people in any group so I have no doubt that some won't get round to switching to a direct debit.
For those who haven't paid this way, it's nothing to do with people being automatically opted in - you fill in a form the same way as you do for your pension or any other payments from your pay packet.

I think this is entirely reasonable.

People should no longer be allowed to choose to have anything deducted at source, because they are so stupid that they obviously don't mean it.

We need to make sure they know exactly what they are paying in tax, pensions, childcare vouchers, charity donations etc every month by making them do it manually.

And if Unions, which are organisations people choose to belong to shouldn't be able to deduct at source, no way should the state have access to people's pay cheques.

We should ban direct debits too - so open to abuse.

Let's go back to using chequebooks. It's the only way we can be sure people intend to pay for the things they are paying for.

Staggered that so many PP don't get that you have to make a decision to join a union, THEN fill in a form to say how you want to pay membership.

MrsUltra - it's good to see your positive view of union membership but sad to see that you don't seem to appreciate the inbalance of power between many union members ( or should be members) versus the employers , their organisations ( I'm talking about the public sector) and the government. Deduction from salary goes a tiny tiny way to balance out this inequality and it seems petty and vindictive to take it away reconsidering use of word fascist

Gosh, people just hear the word 'union' and start frothing, don't they?

Unions ARE opt-in. People CHOOSE to join. It's not compulsory.

Echt - this must bring joy to the Government. The power of our right wing press eh?

My union subs have always been taken by direct debit. I prefer it that way, too. I don't see why employers should have readily-accessbile lists of who in their organization is a union member

^ this.

Why should the onus be on the employer? If you want to be part of a union the so be it, but you should organise it yourself.

Bathtime

Yanbu. The overhead of PAYE, pensions and other things like childcare vouchers are acceptable but union membership payroll deductions aren't?
It is a small hurdle in the path of union membership but it is a move that will mean some people don't move to DD and it's another nail in the coffin of union rights.

Unions ARE opt-in. People CHOOSE to join. It's not compulsory.

This. Allowing employees to pay through the payroll is a convenience and the government is just trying to make union membership more hassle. Yes people can sign up to pay by DD but it's obviously easier to tick a box and allow union subs to be deducted from earnings.

Everyone should be in a union especially with the assault on employment rights from this and the previous government. I joined a union when I learnt the hard way in a previous job.

Bubbles - in a perfect world, that would happen. We could all organise our own private health care and education, sick and maternity pay , employ our own policemen ... Oh wait a minute

But non-members subsidise the cost of the admin - however small it is still and additional cost. The cost should be borne by the members - completely irrelevant to compare admin of tax credits etc which are a public good, whereas unions exist for the benefit of their members only. To infantilise people by saying they are too 'disorganised' is patronising. If they can set up a DD for their gas/tv licence etc, or pay by other means, they can do the same for a voluntary subscription to a union.
Currently the unions are exploiting inertia - hardly honourable.

Non pension scheme members subsidise the cost of deductions.
Childcare vouchership schemes are subsidised by non members.

I've been a union member but am now self employed. I support unions in principle. Strongly. But I do think they really really desperately need to modernise.
Membership should be by DD. almost all workers get paid by BACS these days.
Votes should be either online or collected in sealed envelopes in the workplace by reps.
I think it's crazy that vote turnout can be as low as it sometimes is.

I totally agree that this govt is trying to dismantle unions but I do think they need to modernise themselves in their own best interest and take the initiative.
The union with the TV ad - I thought that was great. The one about "we're here for your ..... worries" - that really communicated the advantages of union membership well.

I honestly think this is a lot of fuss and posturing about very little.

Why do you need a 'middle man'? The financial agreement is between the employee and Union, so it makes sense payment should be arranged between these two parties. There is no need for the employer to be involved in this aspect.

As for undermining unions, if this act serves to undermine them, then they cannot be very substantial in the first place...Why should arranging their own payment contributions undermine them?

In one way it could be seen as a bit 'Big Brother' if the employee oversees and arranges payment...

Also low paid workers ( many of whom are in the public sector) may well prefer the deduction from salary as its a cost of working and then they know what they have left. I suppose the next thing will be abolishing tax relief on union subs. you mean there's tax relief on belonging to a
subversive organisation threatening the very core of our being union

I don't understand this at all and would be grateful to someone trying to explain it clearly (Manatee are you still around; I understand your posts well as a rule! )

To infantilise people by saying they are too 'disorganised' is patronising. If they can set up a DD for their gas/tv licence etc, or pay by other means, they can do the same for a voluntary subscription to a union

Agree

Plus I agree with museumum

I was a member of the UCU and there's never been a question of paying any other way than direct debit. Ive recently left because 1) the union was utter crap when I needed help with bullying at work, 2) DH has just been made redundant and we need the £25 per month for essentials.

Unions do not exist for the benefits of their members only. What an ignorant thing to say.

Do pay rises, maternity allowances, weekends, holiday entitlements, etc (and I could go on) only accrue to union members? Thought not.