Should one always feel obliged to speak well of the dead?

[prorsum]

Been reading the Cilla thread and some comments have not gone down well due to the lack of respect shown to the deceased and her grieving relatives. Maybe we could leave Cilla out of this thread and speak just to subject.

Oh i don't know, Stillstaying - I was pretty upset about Terry Pratchett's death, mind you I had met and chatted to him briefly, so he wasn't quite such a stranger...

I don think it is necessary to speak good of them but refraining from making bitchy comments would be nice.

I don't know the thread at all but if someone is a wanker, being dead just makes them a dead wanker.

However voicing such things to grieving family/friends would make a person a cunt of the highest order.

If someone was saying how sad it was that someone I detested died and going on about that person as if they were the best ever while I knew them to be horrible/abusive/spiteful etc, then I would hope that I would just say 'I'm sorry for your loss' and change the subject or 'sorry for your loss but can we change the subject now, X was never a particularly nice person to me' if they wouldn't stop.

If my friend's rapist drops down dead, I certainly wouldn't be listening to anyone say how great he was and would cut people off and just walk away. I wouldn't be telling anyone how much he deserved it either though because I wouldn't want to hurt someone who was grieving even more, save my friend who would feel better for knowing he was.

thumb each to their own and all that, perhaps I'm a bit cold hearted .

No, if you didn't like that person or they had personally done something to you you shouldn't have to say nice things.
I think it's wrong to say your piece where the bereaved may be lurking or likely to be told.
The best thing is to just keep your mouth shut and make no comment.
Nobody is forcing you or expecting you to comment.

I liked her as an entertainer but from all I have heard she wasn't a great person to be around if you were an air stewardess at times.

Still doesn't mean that can't feel sad she has died. She was a fun entertained and I liked her.

I can also say I suspect she was a heavy drinker and not always a nice person as a result.

RIP Cilla

I had to arrange my grandmother's funeral as both her sons had died and so I was one of the closest relatives.I didn't particularly like dgm (neither did anyone else it seems as no one wanted to arrange anything) but felt obliged as it was df's mum. I wouldn't have said how I felt although did explain to funeral director that we weren't close mostly because I didn't need his expressions of sympathy.
For someone I ddn't know personally I wouldn't say anything at all because public and private persona might be entirely different.

I can also say I suspect she was a heavy drinker and not always a nice person as a result.

Know that for a fact do you? That's the kind of comment that isn't needed on a thread when someone's just died.

No, you don't need to.

But slating someone you dont know and have never met within hours of their death makes you a bit of a dick.

I really don't think it's ok to be mean about someone the same day they died.
If they were universally hated (like Thatcher) I think family etc know that a section of society will speak up and say bad things, but Cilla's hardly a controversial figure so YANBU. Anyone with a story about how she once gave them the side eye is just trying to say "look at me! I know a thing about her"
FWIW my nan knew her as a girl, however she's not likely to post her thoughts on an internet forum.

Ghosty, then your mum and my dad may well have 'met' at some point.

And my scouse cousin is definitely not Clurr

Sometimes when people die there is certainly a bit of the Heathers complex - remember the film which is a caricature of how people are suddenly regarded as saints just because they are dead.

I don't think you should have to pretend someone was nice just because they are dead. People in the public eye know that some people will like them and some won't. And their families too.

Thumbwitch* summed it up for me.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being upset when a celebrity dies and posting accordingly though. Okay, weeping and rending of cloth might be a bit extreme but people can feel all sorts of connections with public personalities. The celebrity's music/books/films/whatever may have got them through some tough times, or have come to represent a particular time in someone's life, or the celeb may have been active for a cause or charity very close to someone's heart. I was saddened when Terry Pratchett died; saddened at the loss of an intelligent and creative mind, at the cruelty of Alzheimer's, at the knowledge that there would be no more Discworld novels and so a small pleasure in my life had come to an end.

I agree that you shouldn't be obliged to lie about how you feel about someone just because they have died. I wouldn't expect someone to lie and say they liked someone they didn't.

Having said that it is incredibly rude to slagged off someone who cannot defend themselves. Especially if they have never actively done anything to cause you actual harm. Definitely a time for if you've nothing nice to say don't say anything at all.

Should one always feel obliged to speak well of the dead?

Depends what they were like, surely? I remember the thread after Maggie Thatcher's death got very heated. Should we all be polite about Jimmy Savile, just because he's dead? Or what about Cyril Smith? Hitler?

You reap what you sow, don't you? If you're unpleasant in life I don't really think anyone's obliged to be polite about you after your death.

When you're in the public eye as she was then you open yourself up to this. It's par for the course really.

In saying that, on a personal level (knowing a person thats just popped off) and didnt like them I'd keep my mouth shut to people that were close to them and be honest with people that didnt.

werent, not didnt :)

You know when a soldier dies and they mention it on the news they always say something like "his commander said he was a brave soldier that could always be counted on" or something else positive.
I hope one day I hear "his commander said he was a good soldier when he wasn't pissing everyone off with his terrible singing" or "he was an ok soldier and a pretty shit friend"

It depends.

If it's a family member you have the right to speak of them as they actually were.

If it's a celeb who you suspect may have been a bit of a dick I don't think there's anything to be gained by being first to say 'meh, always hated them' on the day they died. It's a bit tacky.

And if it's a dictator, well if Kim Jong-un died in the morning I don't think there'd be anything inappropriate about North Koreans dancing a jig of glee.

I think it's completely understandable to be upset by the death of a writer/musician/actor who meant a lot to you personally.

I think it's probably best to keep quiet immediately after their death. But I think after a little while it's okay to voice reservations again.

For example, Peaches Geldof was generally an unpleasant, rude, high handed little scrote. She gained some measure of popularity by presenting herself as a devoted earth mother, when in fact she was capable of neglecting her child/ren to take drugs and was behaving in a way which skated pretty closely to child abuse. I feel sorry for her for her childhood, but I also think that knowing what happened to Tiger when her mother died she should have known better than anyone the danger of taking drugs when a small child was home. And the fact that she kept the child home with her as some sort of cover for her drug taking was cynical, selfish and manipulative.

But I've seen several people on here insist that this should be glossed over and never mentioned and we should all continue pretending she was a brilliant mother.

Sorry, doesn't wash. When someone does something that shit they still have a responsibility for it, even when they're dead.

I really don't believe you become above criticism just by dying. If someone was a bully/mean/deceitful etc in life then I wouldn't have any problem saying so just because they're now dead.

Cara is right in that I hate the hypocrisy of faking love or respect when someone is dead.

But you don't have to fake anything. You can just be silent. That's not hypocritical at all. But people who pop up when someone has just died to point out they hated them or slag them off are just pricks.

You don't have to pretend you liked them. You don't have to say anything at all. But if you take a death as an opportunity to slag someone off then it is distasteful and disrespectful. And I don't mean disrespect of the dead person who you may or may not have no respect for - sometimes for very good reasons. But disrespect for whoever did love them who is now grieving.

I think it would be inappropriate to openly criticise someone who has just died to grieving family and friends. However on an Internet forum when people who did not know her are fawning in a maudlin way about someone they didn't know not a problem to state your own different view IMO.

I find this sycophantic public grief when a celeb dies a strange thing. When Jimmy Savile died most people perceived him as a bit of a creepy perv, yet the media was full of him being an universally loved national treasure. I rest my case.

If it's someone recently deceased, and I didn't like that person, I'd either just keep my mouth shut, or if in the presence of the grieving family, I'd utter something polite and noncommittal.

Otherwise, If it's been a while, then I'd be okay in saying what I thought.